Rune of Power

90 Gnome Mage
13405
10/03/2012 06:21 AMPosted by Lhivera
Knowing this really makes a lot of their design decisions more clear — and it's something you need to bear in mind when making suggestions, as well. Changes that run contrary to this intention of reduced mobile DPS for ranged specs are unlikely to gain much traction.


You know, this makes me wonder--if the penalties for movement were baked into the class rather than coming about as these talents, would that be received better than what we have now?

I don't find myself disagreeing with GC in principle, but because two of the talents penalize movement instead of mitigating a preexisting disadvantage, I feel like that's coming into play as far as how the talents are perceived.
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90 Goblin Mage
9540
Knowing this really makes a lot of their design decisions more clear — and it's something you need to bear in mind when making suggestions, as well. Changes that run contrary to this intention of reduced mobile DPS for ranged specs are unlikely to gain much traction.


You know, this makes me wonder--if the penalties for movement were baked into the class rather than coming about as these talents, would that be received better than what we have now?

I don't find myself disagreeing with GC in principle, but because two of the talents penalize movement instead of mitigating a preexisting disadvantage, I feel like that's coming into play as far as how the talents are perceived.


They already are baked into the class - we are the most hard-cast dependent class in the game by far. Scorch is our only real saving grace in that regard, and it's not a particularly powerful spell. It puts us about on par with other ranged classes (at the cost of a whole talent tier, obviously). These talents were an unnecessary nerf that makes us the least mobile ranged class the in the game.

But for sake of argument, if the baked in even less mobility than hard-cast dependency and gave us enjoyable end-tier talents that are genuinely fun to use, then I'd be OK with that. But I simply disagree with where Bliz took our class' direction on many principles from a pve perspective. And what's worst is that taking out the T90 talents is such a loaded change at this point in the game that they basically designed us into a hole.

Very frustrating on too many levels.
Edited by Terrorific on 10/3/2012 2:06 PM PDT
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90 Gnome Mage
11545
10/03/2012 01:44 PMPosted by Muphrid
You know, this makes me wonder--if the penalties for movement were baked into the class rather than coming about as these talents, would that be received better than what we have now?


The funny thing, that GC post was made in response to hunter complaints about a change to aspects,........that change was rescinded.
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90 Goblin Mage
8845
What's annoying are trash pulls. If I want to even be close in AoE damage I have to start casting RoP before we're even done with the current pull.

As it stands now, appx 30-35% of the time my LB aren't going off before the target is dead, and I could swear that infernoblast doesn't always spread LB. I love the difficulty of Fire, but there is an extremely fine line between what is frustrating and what is a level of fun difficulty.

I don't know maybe I'm just going to have to get used to it but Fire as is just feels awkward.
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MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Human Mage
10015
10/03/2012 02:02 PMPosted by Grizzlebees
You know, this makes me wonder--if the penalties for movement were baked into the class rather than coming about as these talents, would that be received better than what we have now?


The funny thing, that GC post was made in response to hunter complaints about a change to aspects,........that change was rescinded.


It was, but that doesn't mean the whole philosophy was rescinded. They just agreed that that particular design didn't work well.
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MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Human Mage
10015
What's annoying are trash pulls. If I want to even be close in AoE damage I have to start casting RoP before we're even done with the current pull.

As it stands now, appx 30-35% of the time my LB aren't going off before the target is dead, and I could swear that infernoblast doesn't always spread LB. I love the difficulty of Fire, but there is an extremely fine line between what is frustrating and what is a level of fun difficulty.

I don't know maybe I'm just going to have to get used to it but Fire as is just feels awkward.


It doesn't always make sense to use these abilities. If you're not going to get 25 seconds worth of use out of Invocation, or about 9 seconds out of Rune, you don't want to cast them. If it's awkward to uses them on a trash pull, maybe you're better off using that GCD on an extra cast of another AOE spell instead.

Living Bomb detonates on target death now, so even if that damage isn't delivered to the primary target, it'll hit the surviving secondaries. This can cause a pretty great cascade.

If you can capture log data of Inferno Blast failing to spread Living Bomb, please post it and I'll pass it along.
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Removing the CD on RoP is a small change that would help QoL quite a bit. Right now we can't really plan out our movement by setting up both our runes. We have to set one and then either start our pull or sit around for 6 seconds and lose a chunk of time on our first rune.

If we're not supposed to spam RoP, then use the charge system other classes have seen. We get 2 charges of RoP and each one recharges after 6 seconds.
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90 Goblin Mage
8845
10/03/2012 03:13 PMPosted by Lhivera
t doesn't always make sense to use these abilities. If you're not going to get 25 seconds worth of use out of Invocation, or about 9 seconds out of Rune, you don't want to cast them.


I feel it's a fairly significant DPS loss when not using RoP.

10/03/2012 03:13 PMPosted by Lhivera
maybe you're better off using that GCD on an extra cast of another AOE spell instead.


Which one would that be again?

I think it's fair to say it's a pretty awkward design to not make RoP instant cast or at the very least, allow us to cast it while moving.
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10/03/2012 01:44 PMPosted by Muphrid
You know, this makes me wonder--if the penalties for movement were baked into the class rather than coming about as these talents, would that be received better than what we have now?

Of course it would. Increasing the cast time of filler spells by 10% and making the level 90 talents movement tools would be much more fun.

You don't see Elemental shaman complaining about +5% cast time on Lightning Bolt as a penalty for movement. You don't see Destro locks complaining about the weakness of using Fel Flame for movement.
You don't see hunters complaining at all because GC caved and let them have their no-thought, no-effort, minimal penalty macro-based aspect dancing back.

Having baked-in limitations and talent based tools to overcome them is fun.
Having talents designed to limit you is definitely not fun.

10/03/2012 03:13 PMPosted by Lhivera
It doesn't always make sense to use these abilities. If you're not going to get 25 seconds worth of use out of Invocation, or about 9 seconds out of Rune, you don't want to cast them. If it's awkward to uses them on a trash pull, maybe you're better off using that GCD on an extra cast of another AOE spell instead.

And yet, you know that mage DPS (compared to other classes) is based on getting about +10% damage out of the level 90 talents. Any fight where "it doesnt make sense to use these abilities" you WILL do less damage than a comparable player of another class.
Edited by Sattyn on 10/3/2012 5:59 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Mage
14660
I can live with a 1.3 second cast but the part that needs to be changed is when you cast it should just automatically appear below you instead of having to target the location yourself.
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90 Worgen Mage
20250
Removing the cast time and increasing the duration to several minutes to allow for planning during the fight are my two main suggestions, to remove the clunkiness and all. I certainly miss my instant RoF and armors too.
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90 Goblin Mage
11555
I am really hoping the end result is to keep the cast time as a penalty and allow for casting while moving, the same should be done for Invocation. Even if the cast time was increased I see this as a better change. It's not just a cast time that's a penalty to dps, its placement and even the size of the rune. Other options might be to make it instant, yet add a cd so it can't be up 100% of the time.
As it stands this talent is very clunky for us.
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90 Human Mage
CFT
18870
... if its instant cast or a 1.38second cast, arent you stopping DPS for the same amount of time?

you wont be dps'ing for a GCD either way.


Able to move and cast it. Duh.
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90 Undead Mage
10265
Yes - it should be. It takes too much to cast it every time you have to move. Its too limiting as it is.
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90 Human Warrior
9440
um, how is this more painful than invocation?
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