Hello druid tanks!

90 Troll Druid
7035
You don't receive the full benefit unless you're at 60 rage anyhow with frenzied regen.

Lets see, I am out of cooldowns on a progression fight (yes it happens) and I have 50 rage with 20% health left. Glyph'd FR, I likely die because I have nothing I can use and I can't wait 2 more seconds for my next white attack. Unglyphed FR, I get a heal (even if it isn't the biggest possible) and give the healer a second or two more to get their big heal off.


20% health, lets say 500k hp pool, so 100,000 hp left.

You 50 rage unglyphd-FR for 60k more hp.

You now have 160k , boss hits you for 196k

You died.

Alternate scenario, you're out of CD's, you're 100k health, you're waiting for heals, you use glyph-FR. LoTP heals you for 28k. Rejuv ticks for 22835 (based off WoL from last night). Healer gets a heal off (normal average 51501) for 72101. You're now at 222,936 hp and survive the 196k hit.

Another edit. Tinderhoof you are feral cat. You don't even tank MV yet (per your guild's WoL numbers don't lie).

I looked up WoL to compared the damage and healing taken by me on Will of Emp and that of Tyrnyx.

It's obviously to see that using glyph-FR was not as spikey and consistent throughout the fight. You can see where the arcs happened (us not taking damage).

Tyrn - http://puu.sh/1cM0H

Me - http://puu.sh/1cM3k

I was also curious and checked our SD and FR usage.

I used SD 21 times and FR 38.

Tyrn used SD 25 times and FR 13.
Edited by Ohfuggle on 10/8/2012 1:40 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
17725
My guardian spec is only for dungoens and it goes between a boom spec for PVP. For other PVE glyph options try SI. Damn fine PVE progression glyph. Stampeding Roar is a good one too.

I personally only raid 25's until it's time to mount sell. However I will look at talents and design for both raids because both exist.

10/08/2012 01:12 PMPosted by Ohfuggle
FYI the average hit on Will of Emp in 25m normal was 196,570. I'd think everyone would want a guaranteed 200k+ heal versus a chance. Just like they'd want a guaranteed top off by their heals instead of taking 196,570 twice in a row and depending on RNG to save them.

Do you even know how FR or Vengence works? You do realize that the harder you are hit the more Vengence stacks AP up, and the higher your AP the higher FR hits? They both scale with damage taken and there is no cap (dodges count for the damage they would have done). So the harder you get hit the better the FR heal is.
This post explains it pretty well: http://theincbear.com/vengeance-and-mists-of-pandaria.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
17725
10/08/2012 01:18 PMPosted by Ohfuggle
Another edit. Tinderhoof you are feral cat. You don't even tank MV yet (per your guild's WoL numbers don't lie).

Where did I ever say I was a tank?
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
13555
You get 0 rage from a dodge or parry.

You get 0 rage from a miss.

fixed that for you.
The stats are identical, expertise and hit both increase the chance your melee abilities and your spells will land by the exact same amount.

There is a small benefit to going for hit over parry-expertise in that mobs can't parry from behind. Also, both of them drop off in value once you reach 15% combined hit/exp, since spells can't miss anymore. That's really it.

20% health, lets say 500k hp pool, so 100,000 hp left.

You 50 rage unglyphd-FR for 60k more hp.

You now have 160k , boss hits you for 196k

You died.

Alternate scenario, you're out of CD's, you're 100k health, you're waiting for heals, you use glyph-FR. LoTP heals you for 28k. Rejuv ticks for 22835 (based off WoL from last night). Healer gets a heal off (normal average 51501) for 72101. You're now at 222,936 hp and survive the 196k hit.

For your comparison to be valid, the healing incoming has to be the same before FR:

Situation 1: 0 healing
FR unglyphed takes you to 160k
FR glyphed takes you to 100k

Situation 2: LotP for 20k, rejuv for 22835, heal for 51501
FR unglyphed takes you to 100k+60k+20k+22835+51501=254336 HP
FR glyphed takes you to 100k+(20k+22835+51501)*1.4=232070 HP.

And that's not even getting into the fact that 60k healing from FR is laughably low. It's usually far more than that for 60 rage, my best was ~1.1M (my best NORMAL amount was probably ~150-200k)
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
17725
10/08/2012 01:18 PMPosted by Ohfuggle
It's obviously to see that using glyph-FR was not as spikey and consistent throughout the fight. You can see where the arcs happened (us not taking damage).

Boosted healing will not even out damage spikes. It may help you recover from the spike faster but not prevent the spike in the first place. You get hit for half your life you still spike to 50% before you get healed.

While the graphs are nice and all, they don't give much information about the fight. The fact that his kill is 2 full minutes faster than yours will sku the graph not to mention total damage taken, total rage generated and so on. Your ability usage is not really meaningful as neither of you died and you beat the encounter. Just because you used FR 38 times doesn't mean it was needed to beat the encounter.

Post up your logs and his logs intead of just the graphs.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
10/08/2012 11:52 AMPosted by Ohfuggle
looking at your bear, you aren't even hit capped or expertise capped.
Why would I be either when Crit is ~40% better?

10/08/2012 11:52 AMPosted by Ohfuggle
You reforge out of expertise but gem it.

Because I like socket bonuses and 2xExpertise > Agility.

10/08/2012 11:52 AMPosted by Ohfuggle
ok go for it but why not hard-gem on your gloves?

Because Crit is better than Exp and I want the bonus. Also there were no Exp+Mastery gems in the gbank or I would've use that.

10/08/2012 11:52 AMPosted by Ohfuggle
Missing gems, missing enchants,
Was holding out hope I'd be able to replace my shoulders. Apparently that isn't going to happen though.

10/08/2012 11:52 AMPosted by Ohfuggle
black smithing slot
That one I genuinely forgot about. Thanks for the reminder.

10/08/2012 11:52 AMPosted by Ohfuggle
You didn't take the renewal talent?
Wth would I take renewal when NS is flat out better?

10/08/2012 11:52 AMPosted by Ohfuggle
Colossus instead of Windsong (you'd rather 7500 absorb 2PPM over 1500 mastery 1500 crit rating)?
Nobody in my guild has it yet. Also Dancing Steel is better than Windsong.

10/08/2012 12:13 PMPosted by Ohfuggle
What I don't get is why would you go expertise if dodge/parries still give some rage back where as a miss gives you nothing at all.
No...they actually don't.

10/08/2012 12:26 PMPosted by Ohfuggle
But would 47,000-60,000 hp honestly be superior to 40% more healing taken? Unless you never use FR and only ever use SD.
You do realize that FR will heal for north of 150k when used correctly, yes?

10/08/2012 01:15 PMPosted by Ohfuggle
for PvP, what other glyph is there? I'm not mauling anytime soon.
Not having Stampeding Roar glyphed doesn't make any sense. Especially on 25m.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
8630
I thought I would point out that Glyphed FR is actually better, only for the first boss.

The vast majority of tank damage will come from the Bleed they drop on the tank.
This cannot be mitigated via SD. Thus, once you have that bleed (which is reapplied every 5-10 seconds I believe?) your SD is completely useless.

Therefore, FR wins out, by a large margin on the first fight. Therefore, no SD once bleeds are up = TONS of rage for only FR = Glyph it!
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
10/08/2012 03:12 PMPosted by Tonydanza
Therefore, FR wins out, by a large margin on the first fight. Therefore, no SD once bleeds are up = TONS of rage for only FR = Glyph it!
Problem is it still requires people to heal you in order to receive benefits from it.

It's better just to spam unglyphed FR.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
8630
Therefore, FR wins out, by a large margin on the first fight. Therefore, no SD once bleeds are up = TONS of rage for only FR = Glyph it!
Problem is it still requires people to heal you in order to receive benefits from it.

It's better just to spam unglyphed FR.


I healed said fight, and heals are going on the tank nonstop. I can see an argument for not glyphing it. Really it can go either way, but I think if you're the tank that's tanking with the Melee dps, you should probably have er glyphed as a ton of spread heals will be incomming non stop.
(Unless you're stacking disc priests; lolol)

What I really meant to say is that FR wins out by a large margin, SD is utterly useless on Guardians encounter.
Ps, our MT for that fight was Druid.
Edited by Tonydanza on 10/8/2012 3:17 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
10/08/2012 03:16 PMPosted by Tonydanza
I healed said fight, and heals are going on the tank nonstop.

Well heals weren't going on me non-stop. So it's a personal experience thing I guess.

10/08/2012 03:16 PMPosted by Tonydanza
but I think if you're the tank that's tanking with the Melee dps, you should probably have er glyphed as a ton of spread heals will be incomming non stop.

This I can certainly see being the case.

10/08/2012 03:16 PMPosted by Tonydanza
What I really meant to say is that FR wins out by a large margin, SD is utterly useless on Guardians encounter.
That is definitely true.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
8630
I healed said fight, and heals are going on the tank nonstop.

Well heals weren't going on me non-stop. So it's a personal experience thing I guess.


Yeah, our tanks really had a struggle last night (We raid sun/monday)
The first encounter they were struggling with threat when swapping for an hour or two...
We actually spent an extra hour on Feng 9manning it, just so the tanks figured out the mechanic of the shield crap. As I had to heal through every single epicenter when we were trying to actually down it.

The first two fights are just brutal on tanks. It's 99% about how the tanks handle the fights. Everything else is simple face roll don't stand in the fire for dps and healers.
Edited by Tonydanza on 10/8/2012 3:24 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
6340
Elegon hits too hard with auto attack and a breathe, !@#$ using glyphed FR. Saved me multiple times banking a 200k heal waiting for the damage to hit.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]