Cheap Shot

100 Troll Rogue
8615
what if it was back on its own dr?

I know, it sounds kind of crazy, but with all the control that was added to other classes in MoP, ours doesn't seem as amazing as it used to (heck warriors have almost as much control as we do, when did that happen?).

And not only do other classes have more control, but ours was nerfed slightly (unless you take paralytic poison, but I don't see many people taking it). And our survivability seems a bit low as well.

Putting cheap shot back on its own dr would increase our control and put us back near the top and it would increase our survivability (especially with nerve strike).

So would it be OP? Would it be as effective as I describe it? What do you guys think?
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90 Orc Death Knight
12980
Warriors do have more control, and blizzard thought it would be nice to share blinds and vanishes with other classes.

It will never happen, you'll get people screaming about being "stunlocked" which only applied WAY back when there was zero DR. There's about 100 more CC other classes have had added that are more annoying.
Edited by Secondtime on 10/11/2012 9:18 AM PDT
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100 Troll Rogue
8615
I'm really wondering if this would be too much though, it would also help out while leveling, being able to stun a mob for a while would go a long way in increasing our survivability.
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10/11/2012 09:16 AMPosted by Cloake
I hate paralytic poison, it is a microcosm of what the class has become. It is impossible to predict when the stun will occur much less plan for it in any engagement. I run through a series of checklists mentally before I gank any class now, what do I open with, how will they respond what if they pop this or that and when should I attempt my burst. These things involve planning and forethought and paralytic poison is anathema to the rogue play style imo.


I've actually come to realize that no matter what I do... if I don't stun my target I'm pretty much dead. I take 2/3 hits from any plate class and I'm dead meat even with cheat death/CR & Evasion. (They could be all up at the same time, it just wouldn't make a difference. I also take into consideration that I'm not even geared... so maybe it'll be 4/5 hits once I have a decent amount of resil.)

With Recuperate being so weak... I just don't even bother using it. (Same for leeching poisons.)

So I just try my best to mitigate as much dmg while doing as much as I can to bring my target as low as humanly possible so that when I die, some1 can finish it.

It sucks... but it could be way worst!
Hell... healers are still acting like raid bosses on their own, now that's a problem.
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90 Undead Rogue
3975
10/11/2012 09:16 AMPosted by Cloake
I hate paralytic poison, it is a microcosm of what the class has become. It is impossible to predict when the stun will occur much less plan for it in any engagement. I run through a series of checklists mentally before I gank any class now, what do I open with, how will they respond what if they pop this or that and when should I attempt my burst. These things involve planning and forethought and paralytic poison is anathema to the rogue play style imo.


Shiv it.
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90 Orc Death Knight
5115
The only problem with Stun-Locking back in the day was that there was NO diminishing returns. You could put someone in a 10 second stun, Blind, restealth, Sap, restealth, rince, repeat. That didn't include another team member's CC.

With the way CC has evolved in the game thus far, I think Rogue Stun-Locking could make a comeback. It would up survivability without game-breaking self heals.

The question is, should Cheap DR or Kidney? I think they tried it when DR was in its infancy and I don't remember the result, other than the current state of things.

My vote is Cheap Shot on the general DR, Kidney on DRs with other Kidneys.

edit: gah, phone keeps changing my toons.
Edited by Pushßutton on 10/11/2012 12:48 PM PDT
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100 Troll Rogue
8615
The question is, should Cheap DR or Kidney? I think they tried it when DR was in its infancy and I don't remember the result, other than the current state of things.

My vote is Cheap Shot on the general DR, Kidney on DRs with other Kidneys.

edit: gah, phone keeps changing my toons.


That might work better since kidney can't be spammed in a dance.
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90 Undead Rogue
6020
There needs to be less DR CC stacking not more. Both warrior stuns/knockdowns and caster chain fears into Africa whilst DPSing are a problem not to be duplicated for other classes.
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10 Goblin Rogue
0
10/11/2012 01:35 PMPosted by Subversiv
There needs to be less DR CC stacking not more. Both warrior stuns/knockdowns and caster chain fears into Africa whilst DPSing are a problem not to be duplicated for other classes.
While I would agree with you that CC chaining can be a problem, I don't like seeing things taken away. It's like giving up on making it work, like a Frost Dk's Hungering Cold.

I didn't understand the arguement about instant AE CC being too hard to balance when things like Psychic Scream, Howl of Terror, Intimidating Shout and now Blinding Light do essentially the same thing.

I would say the solution lies in tweaking DR, not the abilities themselves.

Lots of classes have gotten a lot of shiny new or recycled CC and those aren't going to be taken away. While Rogues haven't really lost much control, a lot of other classes have either caught up or surpassed us.
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55 Worgen Death Knight
0
10/11/2012 01:35 PMPosted by Subversiv
There needs to be less DR CC stacking not more. Both warrior stuns/knockdowns and caster chain fears into Africa whilst DPSing are a problem not to be duplicated for other classes.


I completely agree, but I don't see them reducing CC or changing DRs until the next xpack, but I could see them changing the DR on one of rogue's stuns in a patch.
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10 Goblin Rogue
10610
I think the reason they're separate is that if CS and KS were on different DR's, a rogue would stunlock someone in arena while the guy/gal got nuked from 100 to 0.

Obviously that could be easily fixed, but we know how Blizz is when it comes to balancing PvP...

-.-
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10 Goblin Rogue
0
Yeah, 10 second stun could force a trinket early. Even Ferals had it with Maim but that was an Incapacitate with a near infinite break-cap. Now it's a stun on the DR.

Even after CC DR was introduced, CS and KS were on separate DRs. They tried CS off, KS on then tried swapping it. I thought it used to work but I'm fuzzy on what really prompted the final change.

Was it the amount of burst that PVP is dominated by?
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10 Goblin Rogue
10610
10/11/2012 06:29 PMPosted by Troelvah
Was it the amount of burst that PVP is dominated by?


Yes.

I think the official reasoning was something along the lines of "Players don't find it fun when they get killed without having any control over their character the entire time"
Edited by Sheevah on 10/11/2012 6:32 PM PDT
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10 Goblin Rogue
0
I had a thought on DR:

The main difference that I like about DR over swtor's Resolve is that DR is categorized, instead of all CC thrown in the same pool. What I like about Resolve is that it's all around easier.

However, I think a balance can be struck. Retain the categories of DR but instead of reducing the duration of subsequently applied CC of the same category, only allow that one category to be applied for a total of 8 seconds in an 18 second period.

CC would be toned down a bit for sure. Instead of chaining Polymorph or Fear three times in a row, those classes will need a complimentary partner to CC effectively.

Feel free to poke holes in it.
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100 Troll Rogue
8615
10/11/2012 06:29 PMPosted by Troelvah
an Incapacitate with a near infinite break-cap


Huh,

This gave me an idea.

What if Cheap Shot had a damage cap but was on its own dr? Maybe even making the damage cap decrease with its DR.
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