Why hasn't the Alliance beaten the Forsaken?

90 Dwarf Warrior
14765
Most of us here pretty much know the sequence of events here, but let me refresh.

1) In Tides of War, Sylvanas does not want Garrosh to attack Theramore because she fears retribution from the Alliance.

2) Garrosh attacks Theramore anyway.

3) The Alliance does nothing???

Why not? They apparently have a golden opportunity to do so. The reasons for doing so are still existent, as well. The Worgen's homeland is still a battlefield. The Night Elves want to help the Worgen. We haven't seen Varian soften his stance against Sylvanas.
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90 Draenei Shaman
11990
Why not? They apparently have a golden opportunity to do so. The reasons for doing so are still existent, as well. The Worgen's homeland is still a battlefield. The Night Elves want to help the Worgen. We haven't seen Varian soften his stance against Sylvanas.


Because its a global conflict and unless Varian wants to give up Kalimdor to the Horde I doubt he has enough manpower to attack Sylvanas and fight the Kalimdor Horde at the same time.
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100 Human Mage
9210
The ideal answer? There are too many fronts to focus fire just the Forsaken, especially after the sheer loss of manpower, commanders, and resources from the loss of Theramore and the ensuing losses the fleet endured after attacking Orgrimmar. Not only that, Gilneas would be the Alliance's only available front to launch an offensive from, so the Forsaken will do their best to fortify it.

The real answer? Because the game world is not going to be updated anytime soon.
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90 Troll Rogue
9870
The Alliance has its focus elsewhere and can't just devote all of its attention to the Forsaken. Also the Forsaken are badass.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11450
Also the Forsaken have plot armor.


Which hey, it's fine. I get it. At least make it believable plot armor.

They need to take a lesson from Aizen or the Joker.
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230
10/03/2012 07:44 AMPosted by Elenie
The real answer? Because the game world is not going to be updated anytime soon.


We've got phasing, scenarios, and all sorts of tricks, gameplay is not the huge insurmountable obstacle it once was, or if it is, Blizz has done a poor job of explaining WHY

EDIT:

They need to take a lesson from Captain Broken or the Joker.


Lol What?

The whole "Oh the Joker never gets the death penalty because his team of lawyers gets him the insanity plea every time" rather than someone just getting fed up with it and killing him anyway or whatever... -that's- what you call believable?
Edited by Skytotem on 10/3/2012 8:41 AM PDT
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86 Undead Death Knight
3690
10/03/2012 08:39 AMPosted by Skytotem
gameplay is not the huge insurmountable obstacle it once was, or if it is


Dislodging an entire race from multiple zones and a capital city is quite a big obstacle.
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100 Human Mage
9210
10/03/2012 08:39 AMPosted by Skytotem
We've got phasing, scenarios, and all sorts of tricks, gameplay is not the huge insurmountable obstacle it once was, or if it is, Blizz has done a poor job of explaining WHY


Blizzard feels it went overboard with Phasing in Cataclysm, and its made them far more cautious of using it in the future. Personally, I think it should be -heavily- used in level experiences, less so at max level content. We should be able to see the effects of things over time through phasing as we level. Imagine if, instead of the defias fanfic, Westfall was about repairing and reclaiming the area, creating jobs to end the financial crisis?

You could start out clearing Moonbrook of leftover bandits.
PHASING!
Moonbrook is now under construction/repair with peasants building things, tearing old buildings down, paving new roads, etc. You help them do it.
PHASING!
Congratulations, Moonbrook is restored better than ever. There is a small celebration/parade that goes on.
PHASING!
Celebration over, you now have a perfectly functioning settlement; protected, constructive, and you're ready to move on to the next area.

It'd be even better if, as you moved through Westfall and did all this, there were some quests to support traders between repaired/renewed farms and settlements, so that NPC's wares expand as more becomes available. Maybe over at the Saldean's, roasted chickens and eggs become available. You rebuild the Jansen's place, and you can buy wine/grapes. You fix up the Molsen farm, and vendors offer leather goods. You get the Jangolode Mine operational and you can buy some nice weapons/armor or tools.

Phase the -heck- out of the zone. The end product is pretty awesome.

Then, in the future, add more phased content rather than redoing a zone. Maybe in 5.1 a Horde vessel lands ashore and you have to fight to protect places. Just leave those as low-level added content. Sure its something a level 90 could breeze through. Its also something for Alts to experience while leveling to better feel the effects of the War. At least in this way, you'd never have to do another major content update; just update a few key areas of specific zones.
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90 Tauren Death Knight
11170
I agree with everything Elenie said.

Which hey, it's fine. I get it. At least make it believable plot armor.

They need to take a lesson from Aizen or the Joker.


To be fair, the Alliance did fight the Forsaken at Andorhal. They just lost thanks to Sylvanas' and the Horde players' intervention. Koltira was going to get the tar kicked out of him by Thaurissan if they didn't.

We've got phasing, scenarios, and all sorts of tricks, gameplay is not the huge insurmountable obstacle it once was, or if it is, Blizz has done a poor job of explaining WHY


Mostly because such a thing is really only going to appeal to either 1) Lore Fans or 2) AvH War fans. The vast majority are going to scream "RECYCLED CONTENT!"

I could see future Scenarios dealing with the war, though. I'd wager that we'll have to see what the state of everything is after the war in Pandaria and the Siege of Orgrimmar.
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90 Draenei Shaman
11990
10/03/2012 08:39 AMPosted by Skytotem
We've got phasing, scenarios, and all sorts of tricks, gameplay is not the huge insurmountable obstacle it once was, or if it is, Blizz has done a poor job of explaining WHY


We may still get that someday, but I doubt it is any time soon.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10495
The Alliance probably feels the same way about the Forsaken.

I doubt either side knows each others true strengths. Sylvanas might also assume the Argent Crusade would be a defacto supporter of an Alliance campaign.
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100 Human Mage
9210
To be honest, I can't see the Alliance reclaiming Lordaeron even if they defeat the Forsaken. Sylvanas would sooner blight as much of it as she could to ensure the Living couldn't claim it for as long as possible.

I still don't get why they don't properly build Stormwind up. Cataclysm was wasted opportunity.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8445
10/03/2012 07:33 AMPosted by Quard
Why not?


They cant afford to focus on her, and to be completely honest, as long as she hasn't crossed the Thandol Span they're peachy.

Even if they did try to assault Undercity, they'd have to swim through plague to get to it. The casualties would be ridiculously high, and only feed the undead armies. To actually take the Forsaken out for good, the Alliance would have to suffer a 70-80% casualty rate.
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100 Human Paladin
18485
"Warchief! The Alliance may indeed not send reinforcements. Not at once, at least. They will turn and vent their wrath instead upon those of us in the Eastern Kingdoms - my people and the sin'dorei. Varian will march on my borders and destroy us!"
- Sylvanas Windrunner, Tides of War


The apparent implication is that the Alliance could steamroll the Forsaken (and blood elves) if they really wanted to... but for some reason they've chosen to focus primarily on Kalimdor and Pandaria instead.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11450
10/03/2012 09:30 AMPosted by Elenie
Sylvanas would sooner blight as much of it as she could to ensure the Living couldn't claim it for as long as possible.


See this is a reason I can support. The Alliance not bothering because it's too dangerous. But for some reason, they refuse to build up that line of thought.

10/03/2012 09:37 AMPosted by Desidarius
Even if they did try to assault Undercity, they'd have to swim through plague to get to it


Or they can invade through the sewers like the last time.

10/03/2012 09:37 AMPosted by Desidarius
The casualties would be ridiculously high, and only feed the undead armies


As long as they kill the Val'kyr or use different races like in Silverpine, the casualities shouldn't be too high.

10/03/2012 09:37 AMPosted by Desidarius
To actually take the Forsaken out for good, the Alliance would have to suffer a 70-80% casualty rate.


I'd believe that, if it weren't for Tides of War portraying Sylvanas as being scared of an Alliance assault. There's also the short story of her where if she were to die, and with Garrosh controlling the Forsaken, the Alliance would just march through, causing the Forsaken to commit suicide rather than be jailed.
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100 Human Mage
17520
"Warchief! The Alliance may indeed not send reinforcements. Not at once, at least. They will turn and vent their wrath instead upon those of us in the Eastern Kingdoms - my people and the sin'dorei. Varian will march on my borders and destroy us!"
- Sylvanas Windrunner, Tides of War


The apparent implication is that the Alliance could steamroll the Forsaken (and blood elves) if they really wanted to... but for some reason they've chosen to focus primarily on Kalimdor and Pandaria instead.


Or so Sylvanas believes; she could be mistaken.
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100 Night Elf Priest
17460
10/03/2012 09:37 AMPosted by Desidarius
Why not?


They cant afford to focus on her, and to be completely honest, as long as she hasn't crossed the Thandol Span they're peachy.

Even if they did try to assault Undercity, they'd have to swim through plague to get to it. The casualties would be ridiculously high, and only feed the undead armies. To actually take the Forsaken out for good, the Alliance would have to suffer a 70-80% casualty rate.


If they were stupid enough to attack from the ground, yes. But the Alliance possesses air superiority over the Forsaken, and could bomb them into oblivion if the Kalimdor Horde wasn't keeping them busy.

As long as the Night elves are protecting their lands in Kalimdor, the Eastern Kingdoms Alliance can't focus on the Forsaken because they need to divert forces to help the Night elves. And now, there's Pandaria that needs the Alliance's presence, so they can't focus on the Forsaken either.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11450
"Warchief! The Alliance may indeed not send reinforcements. Not at once, at least. They will turn and vent their wrath instead upon those of us in the Eastern Kingdoms - my people and the sin'dorei. Varian will march on my borders and destroy us!"
- Sylvanas Windrunner, Tides of War


The apparent implication is that the Alliance could steamroll the Forsaken (and blood elves) if they really wanted to... but for some reason they've chosen to focus primarily on Kalimdor and Pandaria instead.


Or so Sylvanas believes; she could be mistaken.


If Varian were to make that statement, I can believe that he could be mistaken. If a Forsaken, I can believe. But Sylvanas? Why would she make that statement if she wasn't confident the Alliance could do it?
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100 Blood Elf Death Knight
10855
Because she's a paranoid corpse whose only goal at this point is avoiding the damnnation that awaits her?
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90 Undead Rogue
6915
"Warchief! The Alliance may indeed not send reinforcements. Not at once, at least. They will turn and vent their wrath instead upon those of us in the Eastern Kingdoms - my people and the sin'dorei. Varian will march on my borders and destroy us!"- Sylvanas Windrunner, Tides of War

The apparent implication is that the Alliance could steamroll the Forsaken (and blood elves) if they really wanted to... but for some reason they've chosen to focus primarily on Kalimdor and Pandaria instead.


/rpoon

I'm thankful that the Alliance really doesn’t want to; now tell the King we are getting low on our food source and Worgen to experiment on so send us more troops. kktybye.

10/03/2012 09:57 AMPosted by Noitora
If Varian were to make that statement, I can believe that he could be mistaken. If a Forsaken, I can believe. But Sylvanas? Why would she make that statement if she wasn't confident the Alliance could do it?


This is true, but I believe if the Alliance focuses it's might on any of the Horde captials that capitial would fall, but as others have stated that case would leave other fronts wide open for defeats.
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