Does the Horde deserve self-governance?

100 Night Elf Rogue
8700


And so it was decreed: Orgrimmar would be devoted to the construction of Tirion-statues.


Better then the Varian statue.


That's due to the superior masons and sculptors that the Argent Crusade has on demand.

The Varian statue? Strictly amateur work. Nothing in comparison to what the sculptor-guilds of Hearthglen can produce.
Edited by Kyalin on 10/9/2012 8:18 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
9145
See, I don't think the Alliance should be the ones governing the Horde though. To much bad blood.

The Horde need to go into the hands of the Argent Crusade.


That's..... Actually a much, much better idea.

Edit: Wait, Ferlion, wern't you a proponent of a certain kind of road at one point? That's quite the 180.


Ohh, I still want the Road of Red Ice to happen. But Blizzard doesn't have the brass.
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90 Pandaren Hunter
15110
Ohh, I still want the Road of Red Ice to happen. But Blizzard doesn't have the brass.


I think that's kind of unfair. If they thought they could do it and not lose a couple of million subscribers in the process I'm sure they'd at least consider it.
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90 Troll Shaman
5420
I'm honestly not sure how you believe this relates. The returning highborne have no positions in government, they have instead submitted themselves to the rule of the High Priestess.

I would say that rebels should receive more favorable treatment than Garrosh loyalists, though, if that makes you feel better.

The Highborne who're now in the Alliance were allowed to govern themselves for ten thousand years and were never made to account for their crimes which far, far outweigh the damages done by the Horde.

When they reintegrated Night Elf society, they weren't given positions of power because they weren't from the same society. Of course they weren't just handed top government positions.

If the Horde rebels are willing to reform or repent, and the Night Elves were willing to let the Highborne do the same without any sanctions beyond "Not putting them in charge of a society not their own.", it'd be internally consistent for the Night Elves to let the Horde do the same.

That is to say, it'd make sense for the Night Elves to "punish" the Horde by staying out of its hair for about ten thousand years while they do their own things, then saying "Yeah, we cool".
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100 Draenei Paladin
11250
10/09/2012 08:22 PMPosted by Korall
I think that's kind of unfair. If they thought they could do it and not lose a couple of million subscribers in the process I'm sure they'd at least consider it.


I'm not sure what idea is exactly being proposed, but doesn't it seem funny to infer that the Horde playerbase just cannot handle any sort of slight or loss?
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90 Pandaren Hunter
15110
I'm not sure what idea is exactly being proposed, but doesn't it seem funny to infer that the Horde playerbase just cannot handle any sort of slight or loss?


Perhaps you should look at Ferlion's idea first. :P
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90 Troll Shaman
5420
10/09/2012 08:24 PMPosted by Arkturas
I'm not sure what idea is exactly being proposed, but doesn't it seem funny to infer that the Horde playerbase just cannot handle any sort of slight or loss?

It was Ferlion's idea that Orcish pregnant women and the unborn be impaled on spikes by the side of the road from Theramore to Orgrimmar.

It's not so much that "The Horde fanbase can't take a punch", so much as it was just unnecessarily creepy and dark.

No offense, Ferlion.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
8700
The Highborne who're now in the Alliance were allowed to govern themselves for ten thousand years and were never made to account for their crimes which far, far outweigh the damages done by the Horde.


We've determined that it was either exile, or they didn't know. If the former, they would have had to have left Azshara sometime before the war ended. If the latter, there's not much the Night Elves could do anyway.

If the Horde rebels are willing to reform or repent, and the Night Elves were willing to let the Highborne do the same without any sanctions beyond "Not putting them in charge of a society not their own.", it'd be internally consistent for the Night Elves to let the Horde do the same.

That is to say, it'd make sense for the Night Elves to "punish" the Horde by staying out of its hair for about ten thousand years while they do their own things, then saying "Yeah, we cool".


Not exactly, for reasons that I just listed, and of course the problem of the Horde pursuing war even under "peaceful" Thrall.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5780
10/09/2012 08:24 PMPosted by Rufyn
Road of Red Ice

What now?


10/09/2012 08:24 PMPosted by Arkturas
I think that's kind of unfair. If they thought they could do it and not lose a couple of million subscribers in the process I'm sure they'd at least consider it.


I'm not sure what idea is exactly being proposed, but doesn't it seem funny to infer that the Horde playerbase just cannot handle any sort of slight or loss?


Let's just say - Not a "slight loss".

Oh, who am I kidding. Ferlion is probably typing up version 2.0 right now.
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100 Draenei Paladin
11250
That is pretty dark. Can't do that in a T game at all, I am pretty sure.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9145

I think that's kind of unfair. If they thought they could do it and not lose a couple of million subscribers in the process I'm sure they'd at least consider it.


Seriously? I doubt that would cost subscribers.

Road of Red Ice

What now?


I had this brilliant idea before ToW that when Jaina snapped after the destruction of Theramore she would become a twisted crone who even the Alliance us only tenuously affiliated with. To get to her tower, the sole part of Theramore that survived, you would have to walk through the Road of Red Ice, a pathway of ice spikes with the remains of horde pregnant bodies impaled through them, their blood part of the spikes themselves.

It would have been glorious.

No offense, Ferlion


:D None taken.. It was a bit much.. But still awesome as all hell.
Edited by Ferlion on 10/9/2012 8:31 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Hunter
15110
Seriously? I doubt that would cost subscribers.


Ah well, the original idea I heard you float was Kellick's version, which would probably have been subscriber loss AND lawsuits (I imagine some sensitive parents wouldn't have appreciated the idea behind it)

If you just want Horde Soldier corpses, sure, stick some Horde heads on poles. They already did it on the Alliance PvP Mount after all.
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100 Draenei Paladin
11250
>.> Ferlion, you should come to WrA to RP with Ark.

Who has currently burned several Horde encampments down to the ground with all souls still inside them.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5780
>.> Ferlion, you should come to WrA to RP with Ark.

Who has currently burned several Horde encampments down to the ground with all souls still inside them.


Isn't that generally how it goes anyway?
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90 Night Elf Druid
9145
10/09/2012 08:32 PMPosted by Korall
Seriously? I doubt that would cost subscribers.


Ah well, the original idea I heard you float was Kellick's version, which would probably have been subscriber loss AND lawsuits (I imagine some sensitive parents wouldn't have appreciated the idea behind it)

If you just want Horde Soldier corpses, sure, stick some Horde heads on poles. They already did it on the Alliance PvP Mount after all.


I edited it in. I totally forgot that was my original version..

>.> Ferlion, you should come to WrA to RP with Ark.

Who has currently burned several Horde encampments down to the ground with all souls still inside them.


:? thanks, but I don't RP. I;ve never been able to get into it.
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100 Draenei Paladin
11250
There are two things that keep me in game. Rping with friends, and thus making a Warcraft story setting that is fun, and the fact that Blizzard does produce a very tight and sound mechanical game.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9145
The only reason I've still got a sub is because I'm babysitting a guild so no one sells it.

Sigh. I wish my guildies would hurry up and get back. Least Pokemon is present for when I just need to justify the sub.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
5420
I'm going after the individuals, not the race. And I'd thank you not to attribute such half-baked arguments to me.

The individuals which make up the Night Elves and Night Elf society are in no small part part the very same individuals who knowingly summoned the Burning Legion and Sargeras himself to purge the world of everyone they thought beneath them.

And the Night Elves may not like them, but let them back in, no punishment.

The Night Elves' governing body had no problem letting the perpetrators of the single biggest destructive event in all of Azeroth history back into their fold with little more than a "pinky swear you won't do it again".

The only person who wanted them to answer for their crimes, Maiev, was disavowed by the highest powers of Night Elf government.

If all of the Horde and the peoples that make it, even those who rebel against Garrosh, should lose its right to self-governance because of their tacit support for Garrosh's actions, I see little reason the Night Elves should be allowed to keep their government when it actively works against justice being brought against those responsible for the single most devastating event in all of the planet's history.


If I remember right, the Shen'dralar were of the caste that helped summon the Burning Legion, but the Shen'dralar themselves, had nothing to do with it.
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90 Undead Priest
2870
10/09/2012 08:27 PMPosted by Kellick
I'm not sure what idea is exactly being proposed, but doesn't it seem funny to infer that the Horde playerbase just cannot handle any sort of slight or loss?

It was Ferlion's idea that Orcish pregnant women and the unborn be impaled on spikes by the side of the road from Theramore to Orgrimmar.

It's not so much that "The Horde fanbase can't take a punch", so much as it was just unnecessarily creepy and dark.

No offense, Ferlion.


Yeah, it goes so far over the line that it ends up being silly. Like Kellick, I'm not trying to cause offense, but that's really a pretty bad idea.
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