What makes a Mary Sue in your opinion?

90 Undead Warlock
0
10/03/2012 04:50 AMPosted by Tronei
I AM THE SON OF DEATHWING AND JAINA.


YOU MEAN KALEC RIGHT? CAUSE HE'S TOTALLY TAPPING THAT.
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Stax is a sue.

  • Purple eyes
  • Spent months (bordering year) recovering fragments of a sword of minor fame.
  • Reforged said sword using other exotic materials, screwing it up but acquiring a lesser paragon in the process.
  • Mastery over twilight magic and its realm.
  • Proficiency in fire and arcane magic, in addition to twilight.
  • Makes several overlaying elaborate plans to achieve minimum stress and fuss during operations/plans/missions.
  • Has suffered a (personal, as opposed to typical) tragic past
  • But I'm okay with that.
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    He's such an adorable dragon, though. :3
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    85 Worgen Warrior
    0
    Stax is a sue.

  • Purple eyes
  • Spent months (bordering year) recovering fragments of a sword of minor fame.
  • Reforged said sword using other exotic materials, screwing it up but acquiring a lesser paragon in the process.
  • Mastery over twilight magic and its realm.
  • Proficiency in fire and arcane magic, in addition to twilight.
  • Makes several overlaying elaborate plans to achieve minimum stress and fuss during operations/plans/missions.
  • Has suffered a (personal, as opposed to typical) tragic past
  • But I'm okay with that.


    Those aren't characteristics of a Sue...? I mean, if you've been playing your character for a while and they are a powerful character, that can't make them a Sue. It would be different if you were level 10 and were a great, mighty dragon or something.
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    Stax is a sue.

  • Purple eyes
  • Spent months (bordering year) recovering fragments of a sword of minor fame.
  • Reforged said sword using other exotic materials, screwing it up but acquiring a lesser paragon in the process.
  • Mastery over twilight magic and its realm.
  • Proficiency in fire and arcane magic, in addition to twilight.
  • Makes several overlaying elaborate plans to achieve minimum stress and fuss during operations/plans/missions.
  • Has suffered a (personal, as opposed to typical) tragic past
  • But I'm okay with that.


    Those aren't characteristics of a Sue...? I mean, if you've been playing your character for a while and they are a powerful character, that can't make them a Sue. It would be different if you were level 10 and were a great, mighty dragon or something.


    Why does level make a difference?
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    87 Human Warrior
    7820
    i started on a rewrite of one of those sue tests to bring it up to date w/ cataclysm and a big note that it's just for chuckles, but despite armchair activist forum posts, nobody was interested in helping

    no love!
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    i started on a rewrite of one of those sue tests to bring it up to date w/ cataclysm and a big note that it's just for chuckles, but despite armchair activist forum posts, nobody was interested in helping

    no love!


    I think to some degree it would be difficult considering we play in a world where our characters are seen as the "hero" (context taken from quests). We can shoot fireballs. We can fly. We can jump through hoops of ice and lava and come out the other side unscathed. I'm not saying there isn't a limit, but that limit is really based on the person.
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    87 Human Warrior
    7820
    it's closer to a trope checklist than a sue test, which is incidentally also the test's level of applicability in my opinion. everyone likes reading about and recognizing tropes, right?
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    85 Worgen Warrior
    0


    Those aren't characteristics of a Sue...? I mean, if you've been playing your character for a while and they are a powerful character, that can't make them a Sue. It would be different if you were level 10 and were a great, mighty dragon or something.


    Why does level make a difference?


    Because he's obviously spent some time roleplaying the character rather than just creating him and BAM he's super powerful.

    Not that I have anything against lower levels being powerful or that I think level is a major contributor to RP. It's just typically accepted as a sign of a Sue.
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    90 Night Elf Rogue
    11450
    10/02/2012 09:35 PMPosted by Karob
    Lilian Voss.


    God just let it go. You're a Scarlet. You should be used to losing.
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    [quote]

    Because he's obviously spent some time roleplaying the character rather than just creating him and BAM he's super powerful.

    Not that I have anything against lower levels being powerful or that I think level is a major contributor to RP. It's just typically accepted as a sign of a Sue.


    I have to disagree wholeheartedly on that. I can roll a level 1 character, have a backstory written about them and play it. I can choose to make them a young, inexperienced soldier or I can make them an elderly woman who has spent years practicing her art and seeks to teach others what she knows. I don't believe level makes a difference - but that's simply my opinion on it.

    EDIT: I've played Rennali as the same middle-aged high elf since she was level 1. No one I play with has said anything negative toward it - even when she was a gangly level 31. I believe as long as a person can play it and they are comfortable with it, what level they are shouldn't really matter. I've had some great RPs with level 41's and really horrible RPs with level 85's.
    Edited by Rennali on 10/3/2012 8:26 AM PDT
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    87 Human Warrior
    7820
    that's a bit of an arbitrary connection, isn't it? a 90 hasn't necessarily spent time roleplaying in order to become powerful, just like 10 hasn't necessarily not spent time roleplaying. some of my favorite roleplayers to interact with have been those perpetually-below-cap folks, which are apparently at first glance going to be under more scrutiny for "sueishness".

    it's a concept that i think should be discarded here, barring lighthearted self-deprecation humor. in reviewing published works, maybe, but not with individual role-players.
    Edited by Lito on 10/3/2012 8:29 AM PDT
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    85 Worgen Warrior
    0
    [quote]

    Because he's obviously spent some time roleplaying the character rather than just creating him and BAM he's super powerful.

    Not that I have anything against lower levels being powerful or that I think level is a major contributor to RP. It's just typically accepted as a sign of a Sue.


    I have to disagree wholeheartedly on that. I can roll a level 1 character, have a backstory written about them and play it. I can choose to make them a young, inexperienced soldier or I can make them an elderly woman who has spent years practicing her art and seeks to teach others what she knows. I don't believe level makes a difference - but that's simply my opinion on it.

    EDIT: I've played Rennali as the same middle-aged high elf since she was level 1. No one I play with has said anything negative toward it - even when she was a gangly level 31. I believe as long as a person can play it and they are comfortable with it, what level they are shouldn't really matter. I've had some great RPs with level 41's and really horrible RPs with level 85's.


    Eh... cool your jets. I didn't say anything against rolling a character with a backstory. I said that a high level character is a good indicator that months or probably years of real time has gone into the roleplay. To me, that typically makes a more developed character and one who I would have no trouble in believing that they're powerful.

    I'm not really making an argument for you to agree or disagree with. I'm saying Stax is a high level character, he seems like he's been RPing his character for a while based on what I've seen of the forums. I'd hardly write him off as a Sue even if his RP isn't cookie cutter.
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    Eh... cool your jets. I didn't say anything against rolling a character with a backstory. I said that a high level character is a good indicator that months or probably years of real time has gone into the roleplay. To me, that typically makes a more developed character and one who I would have no trouble in believing that they're powerful.

    I'm not really making an argument for you to agree or disagree with. I'm saying Stax is a high level character, he seems like he's been RPing his character for a while based on what I've seen of the forums. I'd hardly write him off as a Sue even if his RP isn't cookie cutter.


    I didn't mean to come off as being hyperargumentative. You made a statement that I simply disagreed with. Your opinion is that a high-level is generally viewed as being a "better roleplayer" because of their level. My opinion states that it really isn't and that opinion is based on the person who is viewing the lower level. So, I'm not arguing with you or trying to crucify you - I'm merely pointing out that lower levels shouldn't be viewed so arbitrarily.
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    85 Troll Warrior
    5535
    What they are saying is that roleplaying doesn't give you experience.

    You level by PvEing or PvPing.

    Time spent playing isn't time spent roleplaying.

    But yes, verified higher total time spent playing is a reasonable indicator of a higher chance of time spent roleplaying. The thought process is not crazy.
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    What they are saying is that roleplaying doesn't give you experience.

    You level by PvEing or PvPing.

    Time spent playing isn't time spent roleplaying.

    But yes, verified higher total time spent playing is a reasonable indicator of a higher chance of time spent roleplaying. The thought process is not crazy.


    Its not crazy, but considering I know plenty of people who have only recently decided to start roleplaying at level 85 / 90, it also seems a bit odd. We have a whole slew of people on this server and many of them leveled and gave no thought to RP'ing until they reached cap. So, as reasonable as some believe it is, others won't. I'm the portion that doesn't.

    Also, love the hair.
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    85 Worgen Warrior
    0

    Eh... cool your jets. I didn't say anything against rolling a character with a backstory. I said that a high level character is a good indicator that months or probably years of real time has gone into the roleplay. To me, that typically makes a more developed character and one who I would have no trouble in believing that they're powerful.

    I'm not really making an argument for you to agree or disagree with. I'm saying Stax is a high level character, he seems like he's been RPing his character for a while based on what I've seen of the forums. I'd hardly write him off as a Sue even if his RP isn't cookie cutter.


    I didn't mean to come off as being hyperargumentative. You made a statement that I simply disagreed with. Your opinion is that a high-level is generally viewed as being a "better roleplayer" because of their level. My opinion states that it really isn't and that opinion is based on the person who is viewing the lower level. So, I'm not arguing with you or trying to crucify you - I'm merely pointing out that lower levels shouldn't be viewed so arbitrarily.


    That's not my opinion.

    I never said "better roleplayer" so, I don't know why that's in quotes. I said a "more developed character".

    I was specifically referring to Stax because I've seen him talk about his RP on the forums long enough and he's obviously spent a while on his character.
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    87 Human Warrior
    7820
    he slipped in "verified"

    level isn't necessarily a verification of time spent playing ;)
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    I didn't mean to come off as being hyperargumentative. You made a statement that I simply disagreed with. Your opinion is that a high-level is generally viewed as being a "better roleplayer" because of their level. My opinion states that it really isn't and that opinion is based on the person who is viewing the lower level. So, I'm not arguing with you or trying to crucify you - I'm merely pointing out that lower levels shouldn't be viewed so arbitrarily.


    That's not my opinion.

    I never said "better roleplayer" so, I don't know why that's in quotes. I said a "more developed character".

    I was specifically referring to Stax because I've seen him talk about his RP on the forums long enough and he's obviously spent a while on his character.


    I was paraphrasing. Calm down.

    I also took the paraphrased opinion based on:

    Because he's obviously spent some time roleplaying the character rather than just creating him and BAM he's super powerful.

    Not that I have anything against lower levels being powerful or that I think level is a major contributor to RP. It's just typically accepted as a sign of a Sue.


    Which seems to me - and I could be wrong - as a statement of opinion and then retracting that opinion. Yet you then say:

    I said that a high level character is a good indicator that months or probably years of real time has gone into the roleplay. To me, that typically makes a more developed character and one who I would have no trouble in believing that they're powerful.


    Now, I'm not trying to argue here. I merely said I disagreed with those statements. I see nothing wrong with disagreeing with them. Were Stax a level 1, I would have no issues with him being a twilight dragon. But based on what you wrote, I feel I can safely assume you are okay with it since he is a level 85+ and he has written it many times before.

    Now I pose this inquiry to you:

    What is the difference between agreeing with Stax's "Sueism" and anyone else? Is it because he posts here? Is it his level? Is it because he is well-known and liked?
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    90 Tauren Warrior
    16235
    i started on a rewrite of one of those sue tests to bring it up to date w/ cataclysm and a big note that it's just for chuckles, but despite armchair activist forum posts, nobody was interested in helping

    no love!


    What would you need help with? D:
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