What makes a Mary Sue in your opinion?

90 Worgen Druid
10460
The term is also associated with clichés such as exotic hair and eye colors


Night elves have amber eyes, pretty exotic. They also have exotic hair.

mystical or superhuman powers


Druidism and shamanism are pretty mystical in many regards. Magic is a superhuman power.

exotic pets, possessions, or origins, or an unusually tragic past,


Uhm. Most people on Azeroth are going to have a tragic past, a very tragic past, considering its past history. We see exotic pets and possessions being owned by people all the time. And why can't a character be born somehere a bit odd?

especially when these things are glaringly out of step with the consistency of the canon.


Why don't we just call 'em a lorebreaker instead of a Mary Sue?

These features are commonplace in "Mary Sues", though even a character who lacks them may be labelled a "Sue" by some critics. The term is more broadly associated with characters who are exceptionally and improbably lucky. The good luck may involve romance ("Mary Sue" always gets her man); adventure ("Mary Sue" always wins a fight or knows how to solve the puzzle) and popularity (the "right people" seem to gravitate towards the character). These characters have few problems while attempting to achieve their goals. "Everything goes her way" is a common criticism regarding "Mary Sues", the implication being that the character's inability to fail makes her insufficiently humanized or challenged to be interesting or sympathetic.


Luck exists.
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90 Worgen Druid
10460
10/03/2012 09:44 AMPosted by Systar


This is really dumb. IC =/ OOC. Game mechanics are not RP. If you're going to be judgemental and rigid, at least be judgemental about the quality of someone's actual writing and the depth + realism of their character, not something as petty as game mechanics that have no regard to RP.


I really think you deserved to be verbally smacked for what you just said.

However, that's how I play and it's what I would say if I had more rigid expectations from roleplayers. But. I don't.


How many times have I seen you post in the forums defending people against those who say certain ways of roleplay are dumb?


I was saying this primarily in refutation of your aforementioned statement that Stax is somehow less suish or has less of a chance to be a sue because of his level.
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
17980
10/03/2012 09:44 AMPosted by Ferenold
Luck exists.


I would not say a charcater rp-ed as lucky is a sue.
I would say a character who just so happens to have the answer, skill, or item they need to bypass a challenege of any sort every time is.

It's one thing to just get that 'lucky' shot on a much tougher opponent.
It's another thing to say you just so happen to know the matsu-tatsu-rastu technique of the tree frogs, and its a perfect counter to your emote.
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90 Worgen Druid
10460
10/03/2012 09:47 AMPosted by Nixalegos
Luck exists.


I would not say a charcater rp-ed as lucky is a sue.
I would say a character who just so happens to have the answer, skill, or item they need to bypass a challenege of any sort every time is.

It's one thing to just get that 'lucky' shot on a much tougher opponent.
It's another thing to say you just so happen to know the matsu-tatsu-rastu technique of the tree frogs, and its a perfect counter to your emote.


Yeah, good point. Do someone with Deus ex machimania's constantly coming up, in other words?
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85 Worgen Warrior
0


I really think you deserved to be verbally smacked for what you just said.



How many times have I seen you post in the forums defending people against those who say certain ways of roleplay are dumb?


I was saying this primarily in refutation of your aforementioned statement that Stax is somehow less suish or has less of a chance to be a sue because of his level.


That doesn't really justify your rude and hypocritical statement.

I also did not say he was less Sue-ish just because of his level. I said, based on his level and how often I see him posting on the forums compared to the traits he listed, I would not consider him, by any definition, a Sue.
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90 Dwarf Rogue
9500
I think trying to incorporate game mechanics to a degree is perfectly valid.

There are times where it must be followed for the sake of keeping up with the game.

Also, given the stigma lower-levels have and the presumption that most of the time they enter roleplay, they're probably trolls, I would say it's much easier to perceive and accept a higher-level character as being more seasoned than say. . . a level one or three still tucked in their starting garments.
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100 Human Warrior
17745
I think we all just need to -clam down-.
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88 Human Warrior
8085
I am clam-down, buddy!!
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10/03/2012 09:58 AMPosted by Moltrasio
I think we all just need to -clam down-.
Why did you have to say this during my fishing daily?
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11450
10/03/2012 09:56 AMPosted by Bruce
I think trying to incorporate game mechanics to a degree is perfectly valid.


10/03/2012 09:56 AMPosted by Bruce
There are times where it must be followed for the sake of keeping up with the game.


Christie Golden does it, as do some of the short story writers. I personally like how they are trying to connect the gameplay with the story.

10/03/2012 09:56 AMPosted by Bruce
I would say it's much easier to perceive and accept a higher-level character as being more seasoned than say. . . a level one or three still tucked in their starting garments.


With me, I look at levels as being fighter experience. Can a level one beat a 90? Sure. But to me, they need to do so "convincingly". Like being posioned, waiting for the 90 to go to an outhouse, and then attacking type deal.
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85 Worgen Warrior
0
10/03/2012 09:58 AMPosted by Moltrasio
I think we all just need to -clam down-.


I'm a warrior. I run on pure rage.
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90 Human Death Knight
8775
I'm the greatest warrior in the land.

What's wrong with RPing that if it's true.
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
17980
10/03/2012 09:50 AMPosted by Ferenold
Yeah, good point. Do someone with Deus ex machimania's constantly coming up, in other words?


Thats a good way to put it. I like to think a character who lacks flaws equal to, or greater then their merits is also an unrealistic character. No one cares about the girl who always gets her way. We all are interested in the down on her luck thief who'd kill for a bet but would die for her friends.
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90 Orc Warlock
11315
I'm the greatest warrior in the land.

What's wrong with RPing that if it's true.


90 Human Death Knight


Death Knight


warrior


See me after class.
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90 Human Paladin
12960
I'm the greatest warrior in the land.

What's wrong with RPing that if it's true.


90 Human Death Knight


Death Knight


warrior


See me after class.


I don't think you understand who he is.
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90 Orc Warlock
11315
10/03/2012 10:13 AMPosted by Catelynne
I don't think you understand who he is.


Keep your eyes on your own work, young lady.
Edited by Kurze on 10/3/2012 10:21 AM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
12960
10/03/2012 10:20 AMPosted by Kurze
I don't think you understand who he is.


Keep your eyes on your own work, young lady.


/mocks Kurze behind his back and rolls her eyes
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100 Human Mage
15060
10/03/2012 09:44 AMPosted by Ferenold
The term is also associated with clichés such as exotic hair and eye colors


Night elves have amber eyes, pretty exotic. They also have exotic hair.


Exotic in human terms, yes, but if your character is a night elf, it's normal.

mystical or superhuman powers


Druidism and shamanism are pretty mystical in many regards. Magic is a superhuman power.


Overly so in that regard, for example, invincibility. Shamanism, druidism, and magic are normal for the setting.

Defining a "Mary Sue" very much depends on the setting you placed them in. What makes a "Mary Sue" in one setting is considered "normal" in another.
Edited by Sana on 10/3/2012 10:24 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
7570
I would say that most Mary Sue's are people who seem to have a knack for getting attention, most of the time bad. Most of them don't realize that they are, in fact, Mary Sues. Most tend to create outlandish character concepts which really, normally, don't make a whole lot of sense.

I think when people start rping they need to learn how to rp in a way that most people will accept in whatever known universe that they're rping in. Sometimes a Mary sue is just a new rper who might need instruction.

Sometimes that Mary Sue refuses to learn.

p.s- I often cringe at the first times I started rping way way way back when. It might have been classified as mary sue-ish.
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100 Human Warrior
7835
I'm one.

I'm a member of a neutral faction that accepts mostly druids yet somehow a human warrior is an emissary for them along with befriending a sprite darter which would never happen and in no way shape or form should I have a hippogryph. I should have never been allowed in Nighthaven to learn herbalism and alchemy from a tauren, the simple fact I speak Darnassian is sickening to the senses. Worst of all I can speak some taur'ahe.

I'm the worst of the worst.
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