What makes a Mary Sue in your opinion?

100 Human Warrior
13945
10/03/2012 11:12 AMPosted by Ferenold
I think someone who doesn't PVP or PVE at all has the same right to RP a powerful character, and the same legitimacy to roleplay one, as a gladiator does.
I feel compelled to disagree as I don't like to give up pointless and arbitrary advantages.

-Canon best fighter in the world.
Edited by Danyl on 10/3/2012 1:11 PM PDT
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85 Worgen Warrior
0
I admit "This is dumb" was overly hostile. Sorry, Systar.

I still stand by my words, though. Roleplaying is about writing and telling a story, at least for me. OOC achievements don't matter. If you want to integrate them, I'm fine with it, but I don't act like people who do so have any more of a right to do so then people who haven't earned 'em OOC. For example:

I think Eldanesh has the same right to be the 'conquerer of Naxxramas' then anyone else.

I think someone who doesn't PVP or PVE at all has the same right to RP a powerful character, and the same legitimacy to roleplay one, as a gladiator does.


Hey, I really appreciate that. And, I actually agree with you. What I was saying was that I've incorporated game MECHANICS into my ROLEPLAY. It's something I like to do. Systar is a warrior, so her utilities are limited to warrior tactics. Of course, I emphasize what traits my characters have, because I'm a creative player and enjoy finding loopholes to fill in. All that I said was that's how I play, but it's not how I expect others to play.

I just wanted to point out that there can be some major benefits in understanding your class at level cap. Especially if you're into adventure and fighting roleplay, like I am. Understanding my classes gives me a better idea of how I wish to shape my characters.

Achievements, quests, and PvP/PvE play are separate from my point, but since we're looking at those too, I will address how I see it. I really enjoy incorporating quest events, PvE/PvP achieves, and encounters into Vanstern's roleplay. It's very fitting for him. I also draw off of different quests that he's done to retell them during pub/drunk RPs. I don't do this for all my characters. I certainly don't do it with Systar! She's the least heroic character ever!

The point is, it's an untapped resource of information and possible character development. For some, it may even be a completely different approach to roleplay that they may like to try. It's not like I'm saying it's more valid than any other roleplay style, which is why the whole "this is dumb" comment really offended me. Especially since you and I have RPed together and enjoyed it!
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90 Worgen Druid
10460
Mary-Sues exist. I even role play with them. Sadly, there is not much you can do about it except roll with it, yo.

What makes a Mary-Sue? Several things, imo. I could write you a book. One trait I find is Mary-Sue-ish is person who makes their character everything ever. They're beautiful but deadly. They're courageous but do fear. They're kind yet cruel. Somehow they are everything and it is kay. Self-insertion is another Sue quality, imo.

But it's whatev'. You do what you want. And if they want to be that, they can.

I find that it brings interesting perspective into my RP and don't really care if they're a mary-sue in the end. RP is RP and I enjoy all creations from whether it's Sue, Stu, or Newb.


At the same time, I think it's important to recognize that some characters can be very complex, and hence be multiple things. I've met people who's characters were courageous and still feared, who were kind and still had moments of cruelty. As well as those that were good looking' and could kill. I don't see how that makes them sui-ish. Most often it does the opposite: It gives the character's depth.
Edited by Ferenold on 10/3/2012 2:34 PM PDT
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85 Worgen Warrior
0
Mary-Sues exist. I even role play with them. Sadly, there is not much you can do about it except roll with it, yo.

What makes a Mary-Sue? Several things, imo. I could write you a book. One trait I find is Mary-Sue-ish is person who makes their character everything ever. They're beautiful but deadly. They're courageous but do fear. They're kind yet cruel. Somehow they are everything and it is kay. Self-insertion is another Sue quality, imo.

But it's whatev'. You do what you want. And if they want to be that, they can.

I find that it brings interesting perspective into my RP and don't really care if they're a mary-sue in the end. RP is RP and I enjoy all creations from whether it's Sue, Stu, or Newb.


At the same time, I think it's important to recognize that some characters can be very complex, and hence be multiple things. I've met people who's characters were courageous and still feared, who were kind and still had moments of cruelty. As well as those that were good looking' and could kill. I don't see how that makes them sui-ish. Most often it does the opposite: It gives the character's depth.


Honestly, I think it warrants a new thread:
Playing a "Mary Sue" =/= possessing unique knowledge/traits
Just in today's discussions I've seen a lot of misunderstandings about the concept of Mary Sue versus creative character attributes.
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90 Worgen Druid
10460


At the same time, I think it's important to recognize that some characters can be very complex, and hence be multiple things. I've met people who's characters were courageous and still feared, who were kind and still had moments of cruelty. As well as those that were good looking' and could kill. I don't see how that makes them sui-ish. Most often it does the opposite: It gives the character's depth.


Honestly, I think it warrants a new thread:
Playing a "Mary Sue" =/= possessing unique knowledge/traits
Just in today's discussions I've seen a lot of misunderstandings about the concept of Mary Sue versus creative character attributes.


Yeah. As interesting as reading these threads were, I still don't feel as if I understand any better what a Mary Sue is.
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85 Worgen Warrior
0


Honestly, I think it warrants a new thread:
Playing a "Mary Sue" =/= possessing unique knowledge/traits
Just in today's discussions I've seen a lot of misunderstandings about the concept of Mary Sue versus creative character attributes.


Yeah. As interesting as reading these threads were, I still don't feel as if I understand any better what a Mary Sue is.


Not sure if sarcastic.

It's a person who immerses who they are into a character. They have no concrete understanding of the differences between IC and OOC, which is where the problem lies. Their character is a bigger, better, more amazing version of themselves. They are often undefeatable, but the biggest issue with their omnificence is that they are unyielding towards other players. Meaning, they do not understand the rules of metagaming and godmodding.

All the other stuff about over embellished characteristics being a primary indication of Mary Sue classification is garbage.
Edited by Systar on 10/3/2012 2:49 PM PDT
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91 Blood Elf Hunter
12910
Mary-Sues exist. I even role play with them. Sadly, there is not much you can do about it except roll with it, yo.

What makes a Mary-Sue? Several things, imo. I could write you a book. One trait I find is Mary-Sue-ish is person who makes their character everything ever. They're beautiful but deadly. They're courageous but do fear. They're kind yet cruel. Somehow they are everything and it is kay. Self-insertion is another Sue quality, imo.

But it's whatev'. You do what you want. And if they want to be that, they can.

I find that it brings interesting perspective into my RP and don't really care if they're a mary-sue in the end. RP is RP and I enjoy all creations from whether it's Sue, Stu, or Newb.


At the same time, I think it's important to recognize that some characters can be very complex, and hence be multiple things. I've met people who's characters were courageous and still feared, who were kind and still had moments of cruelty. As well as those that were good looking' and could kill. I don't see how that makes them sui-ish. Most often it does the opposite: It gives the character's depth.


No, it really clashes. It's kind of like someone saying a character is lithe but voluptuous. Is she thick and curvy or is she lithe and petite? Pick.

The good looking but can kill was a poor example out of the three I listed so I'll try to be specific. If a character is kind and sweet, they're not suddenly going to have moments when they put on a leather jacket and turn kick-!@#. This is just my view of it.
Edited by Aestiàh on 10/3/2012 3:17 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Druid
10460


At the same time, I think it's important to recognize that some characters can be very complex, and hence be multiple things. I've met people who's characters were courageous and still feared, who were kind and still had moments of cruelty. As well as those that were good looking' and could kill. I don't see how that makes them sui-ish. Most often it does the opposite: It gives the character's depth.


No, it really clashes. It's kind of like someone saying a character is lithe but voluptuous. Is she thick and curvy or is she lithe and petite? Pick.

The good looking but can kill was a poor example out of the three I listed. If a character is kind and gentle-hearted, they're not suddenly going to have moments when they put on a leather jacket and turn kick-!@#. No.


That's true. In that case, the character would be inconsistent. The issue is, there are plenty of perfectly lore-abiding, non self-inserts that are very inconsistent.
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91 Blood Elf Hunter
12910
10/03/2012 03:16 PMPosted by Ferenold
That's true. In that case, the character would be inconsistent. The issue is, there are plenty of perfectly lore-abiding, non self-inserts that are very inconsistent.


Oh of course.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
10695
Guvir you're a Mary Sue and honestly I find Mary sues to be annoying.
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85 Worgen Warrior
0
10/03/2012 03:32 PMPosted by Zhaø
Guvir you're a Mary Sue and honestly I find Mary sues to be annoying.


If you're going to insult someone at least spell their name correctly.
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100 Blood Elf Death Knight
12045
Seeing as how everyone seems to have there own definition what a Mary Sue is, its not surprising how some like to fling that word around.

/comfort Gurvir
Edited by Sarîa on 10/3/2012 3:43 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Warrior
10695
10/03/2012 03:37 PMPosted by Systar
If you're going to insult someone at least spell their name correctly.


Hes my friend. I Can do whatever I like. Thank you.
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85 Worgen Warrior
0
10/03/2012 03:40 PMPosted by Zhaø
If you're going to insult someone at least spell their name correctly.


Hes my friend. I Can do whatever I like. Thank you.


NO YOU CANT
RAGE
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1 Blood Elf Paladin
0
10/03/2012 03:48 PMPosted by Systar


Hes my friend. I Can do whatever I like. Thank you.


NO YOU CANT
RAGE


Despite Lurvy's silliness, he's still a pretty cool guy. >_>

Can't say the same about the trolls in this thread though.

10/03/2012 03:37 PMPosted by Sarîa
/comfort Gurvir


<3

Keep up the responses, very constructive, yo.
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100 Draenei Shaman
12255
You can always tell a Mary Sue is a Mary Sue because they look ugly and smell funny.
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87 Blood Elf Hunter
2870
Mary-Sues exist. I even role play with them. Sadly, there is not much you can do about it except roll with it, yo.

What makes a Mary-Sue? Several things, imo. I could write you a book. One trait I find is Mary-Sue-ish is person who makes their character everything ever. They're beautiful but deadly. They're courageous but do fear. They're kind yet cruel. Somehow they are everything and it is kay. Self-insertion is another Sue quality, imo.

But it's whatev'. You do what you want. And if they want to be that, they can.

I find that it brings interesting perspective into my RP and don't really care if they're a mary-sue in the end. RP is RP and I enjoy all creations from whether it's Sue, Stu, or Newb.


I don't see how that would make their character a Mary Sue. In fact, if a character was always courageous, I'd be surprised. I try to always be kind, but sometimes I slip and say some rude or uncalled for. Also, people act differently according to the situation.

Pretty but deadly makes sense as well. People hide behind their good looks and charms, and then stab you in the back (figuratively or not.)
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100 Human Warlock
15280
Here is my encounter with a Mary Sue.
One of my guildies was attacked. we investigated the attack, and the warlock got away. So we shrugged and left. Another guildie who stayed behind on his own accord got attack by a Draenei Demon Hunter who could smell Fel magic from across the city. These were some of her other abilities: she could use wind elemental attacks, dodge all attack (I think due to she being agile, and turn invisible (I think it was a teleport.). When she used wind magic, she was able to throw a plate armored knight fifteen feet with a flick of the hand enhanced by her wind magic like it was childs play. That right there was a Mary Sue.
Edited by Cladriah on 10/7/2012 2:23 PM PDT
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