Average ilvl to start MV?

90 Draenei Shaman
10575
So yeah was wondering what average ilvl was the minimum?
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90 Blood Elf Monk
11050
~460 should be enough to kill Stone Guard.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
13035
10/03/2012 05:43 AMPosted by Rollman
~460 should be enough to kill Stone Guard.


^
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90 Troll Druid
14070
It's tuned for 476. Either compensate with player skill or wait until LFR comes out next week.
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90 Dwarf Shaman
9920
10/03/2012 07:59 AMPosted by Melenkor
It's tuned for 476. Either compensate with player skill or wait until LFR comes out next week.


Where you get this number?
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90 Night Elf Druid
11260
Yah where did you get that number? Definitely made for somewhere around 460. You're supposed to progress from Heroic dungeons (463) to normal raids (476). LFR is just there as a middle step. There's very little opportunity to get 476's before you actually raid.
Edited by Droodhealz on 10/3/2012 9:33 AM PDT
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90 Orc Warlock
7195
10/03/2012 09:32 AMPosted by Droodhealz
Yah where did you get that number? Definitely made for somewhere around 460. You're supposed to progress from Heroic dungeons (463) to normal raids (476). LFR is just there as a middle step. There's very little opportunity to get 476's before you actually raid.

And to add to that, LFR wasn't even implemented to be the "filler" between Heroic dungeons and normal raids. It was implemented to give "casuals" the chance to see the raid content. Just so happens that it's also a nice place to get set pieces and better-than-dungeon loot.
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90 Troll Druid
14070
10/03/2012 08:26 AMPosted by Thoriv
It's tuned for 476. Either compensate with player skill or wait until LFR comes out next week.


Where you get this number?
All beta testing had gear scaled to 476, so that was the data they likely did most of their tuning around, and I'm fairly certain everything got at least a small HP buff since those tests.

Plus LFR is intended to be a step in gear progression for fresh 90s (heroics > lfr > current raids).
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90 Orc Death Knight
7780
10/03/2012 10:17 AMPosted by Melenkor
Plus LFR is intended to be a step in gear progression for fresh 90s (heroics > lfr > current raids).


No it's not. That's why blizz postponed lfr a week (which saddens me).
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90 Human Warrior
10805
10/03/2012 09:32 AMPosted by Droodhealz
Yah where did you get that number? Definitely made for somewhere around 460. You're supposed to progress from Heroic dungeons (463) to normal raids (476). LFR is just there as a middle step. There's very little opportunity to get 476's before you actually raid.


If you're counting heroic dungeons as 463, then normal raids are 489+
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90 Pandaren Shaman
7040
Plus LFR is intended to be a step in gear progression for fresh 90s (heroics > lfr > current raids).


No it's not. That's why blizz postponed lfr a week (which saddens me).


no, they postponed it so the progression chasers didn't have to rely on the RNG of a single LFR run to gain or lose advantage in the race. LFR is very much still a part of the progression.

There is a very good reason why most of the best guilds are stuck at 4/6, and it's because it's not tuned for such a low gear level, so you have to be EXTREMELY good to push that. Next week will have most clears in 1-2 nights.
Edited by Goblis on 10/3/2012 10:35 AM PDT
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90 Dwarf Death Knight
17665
LFR is not intended to be any sort of raiding "step", it is because of circumstance (Everytime Blizzard implements "casual" gear, it's required for the more hardcore players to farm it out)
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90 Troll Hunter
11255
10/03/2012 10:34 AMPosted by Goblis
no, they postponed it so the progression chasers didn't have to rely on the RNG of a single LFR run to gain or lose advantage in the race. LFR is very much still a part of the progression.


Good thing they replaced LFR with BMAH, for the first and second week.
Edited by Naumu on 10/3/2012 11:15 AM PDT
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90 Orc Warlock
7195
10/03/2012 10:17 AMPosted by Melenkor
Plus LFR is intended to be a step in gear progression for fresh 90s (heroics > lfr > current raids).

This is just wrong. LFR was intended to give players who are either not good enough, not committed enough, or don't care enough to deal with even normal mode raids a chance to see the raid content. Blizzard didn't want to go through allllll the trouble creating content that not everyone had the chance to see.

It just so happens that it CAN be used as a stepping stone to raids, but it is not a necessary or intended "second step" from heroics to raids.
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90 Human Rogue
10980
460 is sufficient. SG is a coordination fight, not a numbers check.
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90 Night Elf Druid
11260
Yah where did you get that number? Definitely made for somewhere around 460. You're supposed to progress from Heroic dungeons (463) to normal raids (476). LFR is just there as a middle step. There's very little opportunity to get 476's before you actually raid.


If you're counting heroic dungeons as 463, then normal raids are 489+


Oh wow I'm sorry. I didn't actually look at the loot tables. I did some napkin math there based on the previous expansion. It's different this time around because we don't have a previous tier as a middle point between this tier's gear (if that makes sense). We had t12 at 378/391 and then t13 was 384/397/410 (with "it's heroic dungeon" hour of twilight at 378 which is a half tier below).

This time we don't have previous gear to work with so we're jumping 2 full tiers when we go from heroic dungeons to t14. Awkward.

10/03/2012 11:40 AMPosted by Loktronotron
Plus LFR is intended to be a step in gear progression for fresh 90s (heroics > lfr > current raids).

This is just wrong. LFR was intended to give players who are either not good enough, not committed enough, or don't care enough to deal with even normal mode raids a chance to see the raid content. Blizzard didn't want to go through allllll the trouble creating content that not everyone had the chance to see.

It just so happens that it CAN be used as a stepping stone to raids, but it is not a necessary or intended "second step" from heroics to raids.


Unfortunately it has become quite necessary based on the my statement above. We're jumping 2 tiers.
Edited by Droodhealz on 10/3/2012 1:13 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Paladin
14060
10/03/2012 09:32 AMPosted by Droodhealz
Yah where did you get that number? Definitely made for somewhere around 460. You're supposed to progress from Heroic dungeons (463) to normal raids (476). LFR is just there as a middle step. There's very little opportunity to get 476's before you actually raid.


Hmmm... Normal raids drop 476? I'm pretty sure it's 496, at least the tier items are at that level.
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90 Orc Warlock
7195
10/03/2012 01:09 PMPosted by Droodhealz
Unfortunately it has become quite necessary based on the my statement above. We're jumping 2 tiers.
This has become a completely different question than the original question then. The average ilvl required to START MV is tuned to heroic dungeons. It is not necessary to have ever done LFR to get through the first 2 bosses IMO.

The average ilvl to complete MV is not tuned to heroic dungeons, and it shouldn't be. The last boss of a raid shouldn't be as easy to kill (gear wise) than the first boss of a raid. Yes, if you want to progress as fast as possible, running LFR will gain you faster access to the end boss and heroic raids.

The original question, and the question I was answering was that you do not need to take the extra step from heroic dungeons to LFR before doing MV. Most guilds will progress relatively slowly through MV (compared to the guilds starting heroics in a week or 2) even with LFR, and will rely on normal raid loot to get to the end bosses. To get into the raid you don't need LFR gear, but to complete it you will need LFR gear along with normal raid gear (unless your raid group is exceptionally skilled as some are).
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90 Human Rogue
10980
10/03/2012 01:20 PMPosted by Imyourtank
Hmmm... Normal raids drop 476? I'm pretty sure it's 496, at least the tier items are at that level.


Normal vaults: 489
Normal Heart/Terrace: 496
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