For those "alliance/horde always loses"

90 Human Priest
8940
Hi, here are some tips for how to increase YOUR random battleground win rate:

1. check out your own talent build see if it's more towards pvp or pve direction, and check if you have your spells keybinded/macroed, if not, do it right away. I know it's different now in mop than in cata, but sitll you should be doing this as you're expecting to win more

2. Please play over 1000 arena games( 2s and 3s to be more specific, 2s might be more suitable for pvp beginners who are still need to learn what capability of every other classes, and what are the "left out" spells could you be using in certain situations)

3. Check out the big names for your classes as well as other classes. A good pvper(a multi seasonal gladiator or at least 2.2+ arena player) can often inspire you in terms of macros/keybinds/play styles and etc. Check their armory and bookmark them in your browser and re check them once in a while see if they're making any chenges in terms of geming/ enchanting/ trinkets/other useful gears/a specific weapon/ professions.

4. Do duels while waiting for queues, it also helps you to understand/study what are the new spells other classes have now in this new expansion, and thus have a better prediction on when they're about to use them and what/how/when you should be using your spells to counter.

5. You can queue with a premade for random battlegrounds. However, individual abilities still counts even if you're in a premade. I've seen/experienced premades got owned by the opposite team simply because we/they outplayed them/us. Please do realize every move/every second counts.

6. If you have entered in a middle of a game while your team is being camped at graveyard, or 0/2 flags. Please do not quit immediately, instead go out there and try as hard as you could to change the table, if you failed to do so, please don't feel bad about it but be proud of yourself. Because it could be an another way to gain your confidence if you happened to have some blow kills even in that sort of tough situation. If you're a healer, try out-heal all other healers. If you still lose that game you should still be proud of yourself because you've done what you could have done.

I hope that the complainers actually read through my advises and be benefit from them because that's how I play pvp. In my case, I failed to reach 2K+ in my first arena season and I'm not complaining anything but only have realized how hard pvp can be if you're looking for competition in a rather high rank, and I have only learned how to do better when situations getting tougher.
I do not have any proud pvp achivements but I sincerely believe that making efforts on your own is always better than making a thread complaining how alliance/horde always lose lose lose in random battlegrounds.

Making threads about how you lose every single game on this forum is only meaning admitting that you're bad, you're one the problems for your faction/team, and arguing with other people when they analyzing your problems or giving you advises only explains why you're still bad: you do not listen and do not want to learn.

Here are some of my random battlegound stats(just a bit of a prove that I'm not some random garbage player that suck really hard in pvp but thinks he's a pro):

Battlegrounds played 3,540
Battlegrounds won 2,152
Random Battleground win rate:60.79+%

Arenas played 909
Arenas won 597
Highest 2 man personal rating: 1761(I didn't play many 3s for my first season simply because I realized I wasn't really ready for that much of details in 3s as a disc priest)

In arena there're too many things to be considered, such as positioning, timing, mana managing, etc. and when you getting used to pay so much more attention to every details then you'd carry that good mindset to every single random battleground you play in, so it's predictable that you'd have a better random battleground win rate in a long term.

Thank you.

P.S: If you just going to ignore all of the above than I think you do not have the right to complain about losings because pvp is like everything else in life, it takes efforts and it takes time to get any better.(not even consider being really good)
Edited by Florencia on 10/3/2012 8:28 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
15880
Well said.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
8240
Now, I read everything.

Everything you said DOES NOT...take into consideration. The abundance of bots on the horde side ( even alliance players agree to this).

it doesn't take into account of the people who herp derp in the middle...run away from nodes to fight on roads.

Most of the people that don't read these forums don't arena at all.

You linked statistics. They are hardly reliable at all, as they DO NOT take into account games left (afk'd out of)

I had a disasterly strand of the ancients yesterday...while calling for help at one area over and over...and no one was coming...there were 5 bots on the boat and 4 people spoke spanish.

Everything you say is for people who want to improve themselves. MOST people in bg's dont care about that...they want purples.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
15880
Now, I read everything.

Everything you said DOES NOT...take into consideration. The abundance of bots on the horde side ( even alliance players agree to this).

it doesn't take into account of the people who herp derp in the middle...run away from nodes to fight on roads.

Most of the people that don't read these forums don't arena at all.

You linked statistics. They are hardly reliable at all, as they DO NOT take into account games left (afk'd out of)

I had a disasterly strand of the ancients yesterday...while calling for help at one area over and over...and no one was coming...there were 5 bots on the boat and 4 people spoke spanish.

Everything you say is for people who want to improve themselves. MOST people in bg's dont care about that...they want purples.


You should always start with yourself. Improve what you can. Then expand outwards.

There is an abundance of bots and herp derpers in both factions. They are not exclusive to or overwhelmingly associated with one faction or another.

The statistics aren't reliable, you are correct, but that doesn't change the fact that his experience (on that toon) is decent sample size. 60% is not bad assuming that he doesn't afk out of losses. Assuming that he does, 60% is incredibly low.

Even if you are correct and most people that read this don't arena at all, there are people that only look at arena achieves as a gauge of credibility. It is good that he discussed arena experience and lack of achieves prior to someone calling him out on it.

I assert that you are incorrect that most people in bg's don't care about improving themselves and only care about purples (which happens to be one of the first things one does to improve themselves). Please provide evidence.
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90 Human Priest
8940
Now, I read everything.

Everything you said DOES NOT...take into consideration. The abundance of bots on the horde side ( even alliance players agree to this).

it doesn't take into account of the people who herp derp in the middle...run away from nodes to fight on roads.

Most of the people that don't read these forums don't arena at all.

You linked statistics. They are hardly reliable at all, as they DO NOT take into account games left (afk'd out of)

I had a disasterly strand of the ancients yesterday...while calling for help at one area over and over...and no one was coming...there were 5 bots on the boat and 4 people spoke spanish.

Everything you say is for people who want to improve themselves. MOST people in bg's dont care about that...they want purples.


Thank you for your comment.

That is why the bots have low win rates and the people who only cares about getting more HKs having lower win rates too in general.
I stated clearly in my first sentence, it is "your" win rate, not others. If you're good, you carring your team, you're bad you're gonna either get carried or get owned.
I do agree that sometimes in a single match there're too many bottings and thus it'd be too hard to carry a win, but if you play it with a correct attitude yourself, you still practice your pvp skills. You may lose that single match but you win more in a long term.(remember in a long term)

My stats does not matter at all, because they're mine, not yours. If you reallly are in a bad battlegroup(i know they've merged battlegroups but still it counts in some way) please do find some better pvpers on your realm and group queue, do more small maps like wsg/twin peaks/battle of gilneas. 5 experienced pvpers would make a change in games like those. At least it's garanteed that there're 5 men that are working together to achive the objectives.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
8240
10/03/2012 08:52 AMPosted by Eisenhorne
I assert that you are incorrect that most people in bg's don't care about improving themselves and only care about purples (which happens to be one of the first things one does to improve themselves). Please provide evidence.


My evidence is simply battleground chat. Offer advice...ask for help..and see where it gets you. More often than not. It will work against you. Not all the time of course..but the absent minded apathy of many players is to blame for other players frustrations.

10/03/2012 08:58 AMPosted by Florencia
If you're good, you carring your team, you're bad you're gonna either get carried or get owned.


To an extent. You are only as good as your team allows you to be. Example...(now I'm quite bad compared to the professionals that regularly post on here) I just ran a wsg. Their fc was on the roof with 1 holy pally and a disc priest...fc was a blood dk. While pleading to the gods above for help in the manner of /bg I was ccing the priest and pally to the best of my ability, blinding with my monkey pet...scatter trapping I was holding them up quite long. To no avail of course. And after 12 minutes of trying and asking. Not 1 other player came up to help. I left the bg completed 2 quests and got more experience then I would have for a draw bg.

Anyone can be an over 9000 rated player...but against 9-14 others...no matter how good you are...if its just you pulling your weight..you are going to lose.
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90 Human Death Knight
4980
Really good points and tips. I especially like the one about doing duels, knowing the other class is just as important as playing your class well. BUT, I wish one person could make a difference, although it does happen sometimes when the team just needs that extra kick, you can turn it around. If they are all just running around getting 5v1'd, pretty sure its hopeless, I do have to say I have returned the flag by myself lots of times in WSG when I get pissed off >:[ lol. Honestly the biggest thing you can do, is bring your own group, doesn't have to be 5 man group, even a pocket healer improves your chances greatly.
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90 Human Priest
8940


To an extent. You are only as good as your team allows you to be. Example...(now I'm quite bad compared to the professionals that regularly post on here) I just ran a wsg. Their fc was on the roof with 1 holy pally and a disc priest...fc was a blood dk. While pleading to the gods above for help in the manner of /bg I was ccing the priest and pally to the best of my ability, blinding with my monkey pet...scatter trapping I was holding them up quite long. To no avail of course. And after 12 minutes of trying and asking. Not 1 other player came up to help. I left the bg completed 2 quests and got more experience then I would have for a draw bg.

Anyone can be an over 9000 rated player...but against 9-14 others...no matter how good you are...if its just you pulling your weight..you are going to lose.


I understand it completely, how disapointing and frustrating when you're alone trying to take down an EFC with a healer(2 heals in your case), but what if there's another player that has the same attitude and happened assist you in that situation, a rogue sapped the priest, a warrior feared both of them(paly bubbled-you scatter-freeze him immediately), a warlock's pet silent them, a mage sheeped one of them,(dispeled sheeping-counter spell immediately) such and such, can you imagine how good it can be if there's another one on your side at the correct moment? and that's what i'm talking about--doing your best does change your game, are you going to give up queueing or what? Obviously no. So BE READY to be the one that assists an another player like you:) by then you win the game!
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90 Human Priest
8940
I especially like the one about doing duels, knowing the other class is just as important as playing your class well.....it does happen sometimes when the team just needs that extra kick, you can turn it around...


Said by a DK proves it all, lol

Seriously, I've won too many DKs on my realm in duels, they all saying shadow priest new ability"Psyfiend" being OP yet they never use Lichborne to counter it..but then there's a 2.5K+unholy DK came duel me a few times and resulting very differently by knowing when to use AMS and when to use Lichnorne, even putting death and decay to force me out of stealth all because he's knowledge of knowing both his class abilities and mines..

Yes, that extra kick happens quite often actually, you want to be that extra kick for example. Many times it seems hopeless when against a premade with a healer in it, then some 2K+rogue come in after someone else rage quit, and focus extremely hard on their key members, thus giving the rest of the team a breath to get out of GY and change the table, I have witness that.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
15880
My evidence is simply battleground chat. Offer advice...ask for help..and see where it gets you. More often than not. It will work against you. Not all the time of course..but the absent minded apathy of many players is to blame for other players frustrations.


You have to know how to ask. I frequently call for help and get it. There are people that ignore me and don't respond, it's true, but for the most part, you can get what you want. Also, keep in mind that not everyone reads chat while in the middle of combat. I primarily play WSG and AB. I avoid the 40 mans because they aren't as intimate and it's basically a mosh pit.

In WSG, I start every battle with my little blurb:

"Wipe them middle."
"Someone grab flag."
"Murder EFC in midfield."
"Find the chocolate covered bacon before the Alliance find it!"
"Profit."

I usually get a few chuckles. They realize that I'm not going to nerd rage at them. They still question whether or not the crash will occur, but as I sprint ahead of everyone pinging the map followed by 2-3 other players, I always see the pack swerve to intercept. I win a vast majority of my WSGs doing this.

In AB, I start every battle with my little blurb:

"If you have a full set of chromosomes, play smart, defend nodes, call incs and fight on the flag."
"If you're missing a few chromosomes, feel free to cap a road for me."
"Healers hitting LM, would appreciate some der....deeps..."

I win LM about 75% of the time from which I sit and I call all incs and the number inbound. I don't just do it once, I spam "LM LM LM LM LM," or " FARM FARM FARM FARM." It gets their attention and lets people know where blood will be spilt.

The point is, if you're humorous to a certain extent and not nerd raging, you usually get the results that you want.
Edited by Eisenhorne on 10/3/2012 10:04 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
15880
Their fc was on the roof with 1 holy pally and a disc priest...fc was a blood dk. While pleading to the gods above for help in the manner of /bg I was ccing the priest and pally to the best of my ability, blinding with my monkey pet...scatter trapping I was holding them up quite long. To no avail of course. And after 12 minutes of trying and asking. Not 1 other player came up to help.


While this is unfortunate, I commend you for trying so long on your own. It was a valiant effort. Hopefully, next time you get more support. You took care of your part of the bargain, it was just a bad bg.

Also, keep in mind that lvling through bgs is different from high end pvp (at least in my opinion).

My two cents.
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
10545
I haven't PvPed at 90 yet, been mostly leveling my monk, but in my experience over the years, wherever you make or not the difference is hard to tell. I know I have single handedly caused our team to win in AV, for instance (One time in specific when we needed to down a bunker to win by reinforcements, or would otherwise lose. I took a bunker by myself and defended it against 5 people (not all at once) until it burned down, causing our victory a couple minutes latter. Everyone recognized that it was thanks to me, so it was a pretty awesome moment.)

But most of the time it doesn't work like that. Something like 1/5 of the games I join have already started and are basically lost. Lots of times I play really good and we still lose, or I just sit in the Farm while no one's comming and we still win. Particularly when I'm on my mage, how useful I am to the team increases exponentially the better the rest of the team play, but if my team is bad I can't do anything. It's basically impossible to carry your team as a mage, you just amplify your team's advantage or disadvantage. (Though the opposite is true for healers).

That's why I like AB. There's no BS in that BG, what you do to help your team does reflect on the outcome more than on any other BG, and it's not as dependant on which class or spec you are. I dislike WSG because how useful you are is disproportionally different depending in your class and spec (I love it when I'm on my blood DK for instance). I've also found that as a mage in AV there's not a lot I can do to help significativelly my team to win, other than DPS, while on my other 4 characters I can always do something that gives us a better shot at winning.

Anyways, TL,DR: I don't think how good you are, specially how good you are at killing people, really helps all that much. It depends mostly on the desitions the whole team takes (Defend BS! and everyone rushes to BS, leaving mine alone, and it gets captured. There's nothing you as an individual can do to fight that.), followed by the team's class/spec composition, and only then comes into play individual player's impact.
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90 Human Death Knight
4980
[quote]
In WSG, I start every battle with my little blurb:

"Wipe them middle."
"Someone grab flag."
"Murder EFC in midfield."


People still don't realize that controlling mid in WSG gives you way higher chance at winning. First response "oh mid-fighters wanna hk farm"...No its a freaking good strategy, you can escort your FC and intercept theirs...bleh.
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90 Human Priest
8940
10/03/2012 10:01 AMPosted by Eisenhorne
My evidence is simply battleground chat. Offer advice...ask for help..and see where it gets you. More often than not. It will work against you. Not all the time of course..but the absent minded apathy of many players is to blame for other players frustrations.


You have to know how to ask. I frequently call for help and get it. There are people that ignore me and don't respond, it's true, but for the most part, you can get what you want....The point is, if you're humorous to a certain extent and not nerd raging, you usually get the results that you want.


Very true, you get support by asking nicely, rage curse or calling" yall suck!" would only make this single match be real hopeless. Many of the the match I've played and won at the end actually started with no good, lost first face to face battle in wsg/LM, and I would always have time to spread some words to others after going into the first GY, I would say" we can still win this, gotta focus on that ele shaman can't let him free casting those lighting bolts!" "gotta focus more on that fire mage, DISPEL EVERYTHING ON HIM!" of course sometimes it'd be just me doing what i was mentioning, but sometimes you'd be surprise how willing the rest of the team listen to you and apply in actions all because 1. you do have a point there, people realize that could be why they lost the first face to face battle, 2 because of their rage urgent a payback, a revenge. If at the moment all you say is" yall suck!" or "just let em win" you're gonna putting out that fire, that hope of winning. Words matter so much in many games especially nowadays alliance seems to willing to win every single game(thinking back how we lost so many to the horde in vanilla..)
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
10545
[quote]
In WSG, I start every battle with my little blurb:

"Wipe them middle."
"Someone grab flag."
"Murder EFC in midfield."


People still don't realize that controlling mid in WSG gives you way higher chance at winning. First response "oh mid-fighters wanna hk farm"...No its a freaking good strategy, you can escort your FC and intercept theirs...bleh.

You can't really "hold mid" in WSG. However, I've found that if I'm comming from one side and I need to get near our flag carrier, I usually wait for them in the mid somewhere near where they're comming from, because of 2 things:

-I often don't find them in time otherwise, because the map doesn't display clearly which route they're taking.
-You distract the people who are going to be waiting for the flag carrier near where the carrier is going to come out from. The enemy rarelly intecepts the flag inside the base, they do so in mid. so may as well intercept them before they intecept your carrier.

When it comes to recapturing our flag, It doesn't matter where you fight really, as long as it's where the flag is, and normally it becomes visible on the map when they're somewhere in mid.

However, the sides of the BG's middle are more valuable than the actual middle. People in the actual middle are usually just HK farming (Which I've been doing more and more latelly because I sometimes can't be bothered anymore).
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
15880
You can't really "hold mid" in WSG. However, I've found that if I'm comming from one side and I need to get near our flag carrier, I usually wait for them in the mid somewhere near where they're comming from, because of 2 things:

-I often don't find them in time otherwise, because the map doesn't display clearly which route they're taking.
-You distract the people who are going to be waiting for the flag carrier near where the carrier is going to come out from. The enemy rarelly intecepts the flag inside the base, they do so in mid. so may as well intercept them before they intecept your carrier.

When it comes to recapturing our flag, It doesn't matter where you fight really, as long as it's where the flag is, and normally it becomes visible on the map when they're somewhere in mid.

However, the sides of the BG's middle are more valuable than the actual middle. People in the actual middle are usually just HK farming (Which I've been doing more and more latelly because I sometimes can't be bothered anymore).


If you have free access to any part of the map between the two bases, you control middle. The flag leaves a base one of three ways (the gy, the ramp or the tunnel). If you position yourself (and team) in the middle of that space, you are able to see the trail of the flag as it leaves the base, and you are able to intercept it quickly. Usually, the EFC is brought down like large predatory cats taking out a wildabeast on the edges, but that means that your presence in the middle of the field expedited the kill.

Meanwhile, the opposition is forced to skirt around you (usually piecemeal) and take much longer routes to and from each base.

That is a solid, and highly productive strategy. Free roaming rogues and feral kitties should be prowling around the edges, delaying the movement of other players while the pack arrives to help finish off a kill.

I fail to understand how that is not controlling/holding the middle.
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
10545
10/03/2012 10:41 AMPosted by Eisenhorne
I fail to understand how that is not controlling/holding the middle.

Because in practice it doesn't happen. The mid is too big, people slip by all the time. You can have all your team all over mid, but it doesn't mean a lick of a difference if they all come together through it.

You can hold the flag room, you can hold the ramp, you can't hold the mid.

The only thing that you could call "holding mid" that I've seen happen is when one side graveyard camps the other, so they "own" the mid because the other team can't even get there because they die on spawn.
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90 Human Priest
8940


But most of the time it doesn't work like that. Something like 1/5 of the games I join have already started and are basically lost. Lots of times I play really good and we still lose, or I just sit in the Farm while no one's comming and we still win. Particularly when I'm on my mage, how useful I am to the team increases exponentially the better the rest of the team play, but if my team is bad I can't do anything. It's basically impossible to carry your team as a mage, you just amplify your team's advantage or disadvantage. (Though the opposite is true for healers).

That's why I like AB. There's no BS in that BG, what you do to help your team does reflect on the outcome more than on any other BG, and it's not as dependant on which class or spec you are. I dislike WSG because how useful you are is disproportionally different depending in your class and spec (I love it when I'm on my blood DK for instance). I've also found that as a mage in AV there's not a lot I can do to help significativelly my team to win, other than DPS, while on my other 4 characters I can always do something that gives us a better shot at winning.

Anyways, TL,DR: I don't think how good you are, specially how good you are at killing people, really helps all that much. It depends mostly on the desitions the whole team takes (Defend BS! and everyone rushes to BS, leaving mine alone, and it gets captured. There's nothing you as an individual can do to fight that.), followed by the team's class/spec composition, and only then comes into play individual player's impact.


In AV as a priest(whether I play disc or shadow) I often choose recap, joining the recaps are always more fun than going to standing on the "noob hill" what we call in-game, and waiting two or more towers down for pulling drek,(i'm talking from an alliance view) I helped my AV team recap bunkers successfully, and sometimes if the horde AV team sucked too much they might end up losing all the bunkers, and that's what I call personal efforts+teamworks. If they lost all the bunkers they're likely res from frostwolf graveyard, and very often you see alliance lose west and east frostwolf towers after that because of a big number of horde players go back and recap the towers. At that point the game turns into a turtle game, now it's your time again, if you're dps do top dmg output, if you're healer do top heals, if you're a rogue or a hunter, or a prot paladin, go back to your bunkers in case some smarts trying to steal cap..cuz very often you lose your towers/bunkers after the majority being busy with face-face fightings.
There're other situations such as if the horde took down two bunkers and about to zerg Vann, I would use a trinket called" Stormpike Insignia Rank 6"("Frostwolf Insignia Rank 6" for horde) which recalls you to dun baldar and defence Vann, in many of those kind of games i've played, I successfully aggro horde tanks and other Vann attackers into Vann's room by fearing them towards the room(trick is it only works that way if you feared them when they're slightly behind your toon, and they'll just got feared to the direction they were facing), Vann kills them all, if there's some paladins bubble and try to run out, I mass dispel bubbles immediately, I even use tailor nets to hold them for few more seconds just so Vann could finish them one by one..
I'm giving you this many details simply want to prove that individual abilities still count a lot in a 40 vs 40 battleground.
Of course there're countless times while I was holding the entire horde team at Dun Baldar for over 10 minutes but the alliance offensive team sucked so hard that they couldn't pull Drek and kill him before I eventually die and that's when we lose the game. However, considering how many times I've saved(sometimes there're somebody else team up with me in Vann's room)the entire game, I am still very satisfy with doing this strategy in AV. and my stats proves that I've won a lot of AVs. (alliance wins a lot AVs in general though)
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