For those "alliance/horde always loses"

90 Human Priest
8940

When it comes to recapturing our flag, It doesn't matter where you fight really, as long as it's where the flag is, and normally it becomes visible on the map when they're somewhere in mid.

However, the sides of the BG's middle are more valuable than the actual middle. People in the actual middle are usually just HK farming (Which I've been doing more and more latelly because I sometimes can't be bothered anymore).


It's very situational, just like everything else in pvp, it does matter where you fight(such as killing EFC), many times you need to make a decision real quick whether you should keep stealthing(since you're a rogue) til the EFC gets to the flag room(i'm talking about both team have flags now) or you gank him in the mid field, and the decision can be made based on things such as whether or not the EFC has a healer following him, how many heals following him in total? where's the majority of your team? are they all died in GY or are they near you and planning on doing killing the EFC in mid, you want to join the fight when the majority has set for the fight, and observe the situation, if the fight went bad you need to save your vannish CD and go follow the EFC and his healer until he got to the flag room, many times the opposite team will choose to kill FC if they won face-face fight, and that's when you as a rogue go kill the EFC while everybody else not around.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
15880
10/03/2012 10:57 AMPosted by Springrunner
I fail to understand how that is not controlling/holding the middle.

Because in practice it doesn't happen. The mid is too big, people slip by all the time. You can have all your team all over mid, but it doesn't mean a lick of a difference if they all come together through it.

You can hold the flag room, you can hold the ramp, you can't hold the mid.

The only thing that you could call "holding mid" that I've seen happen is when one side graveyard camps the other, so they "own" the mid because the other team can't even get there because they die on spawn.


Is explained by:

10/03/2012 11:53 AMPosted by Nouri
The purpose of holding mid is really to split their team up while keeping your own team a unified group. Stopping the EFC becomes easy when it's your team against 3.


The opponents team should never become a unified group. You don't have to camp the gy to do this. It makes it MUCH easier, but it's not required.
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80 Night Elf Priest
2850
Excellent points.

However, after a few minutes in a bg, I know whether to give up or keep trying. I usually stay rather than /afk, but in a bad group I'll usually run around and accomplish nothing because my teammates are useless. I used to plead, cajole, beg, rage, insult, inform, warn, etc. in chat but it rarely if ever does any good. If I'm in a bad group, I shrug, run around, and wait for a few measly honor and move on. And I certainly won't heal anyone.

I could spend a few months learning every intricacy of every class and spec and memorizing my responses and I could do hundreds of arenas, spend countless gold on gear (as well as countless hours earning it), and build up all kinds of hope but I know that I'll have been the only one so engaged. Sorry if that's being defeatist.
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85 Worgen Mage
0
My record is 1637 Wins, 970 Losses.

I've played on both Alliance and Horde, but mostly on Horde, on many different realms which were spread across different battlegroups. So there is no skewing here. I'm not an elite player either, my highest arena rating ever is only a little over 2000.

The OP wrote some nice general advice here. I'm living proof that a single player can decide the outcome of many BG's. I never participate in BG groups, and I rarely ever duo queue. I like lone wolfing it. Anyway, YOU have the power to win your BG's. In the end you're ultimately responsible. If you can't consistently decide the outcome you have a lot of room to improve on your skills. So get to work.

**Also you might want to stick to BG's where you matter as much as possible. Avoid AV and IoC and try to stick to the smaller ones.
Edited by Aeøn on 10/3/2012 2:58 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
6730
10/03/2012 01:04 PMPosted by Bedyou
Sorry if that's being defeatist.


I am with you on this one.

You can pretend all you want that improving oneself will help your win rate but really, one person does not make a lick of difference. It is a TEAM game. You cannot force 9/14/etc other players to care about objectives and no matter how hard you rage, it won't make them go get the EFC if they do not feel like it. Get over yourself.

I wish Blizzard would make two different queues: one for players that care about objectives and one for the window licking, midiots that think just out right killing others is fun.
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85 Worgen Mage
0
10/03/2012 03:04 PMPosted by Katlei
Sorry if that's being defeatist.


I am with you on this one.

You can pretend all you want that improving oneself will help your win rate but really, one person does not make a lick of difference. It is a TEAM game. You cannot force 9/14/etc other players to care about objectives and no matter how hard you rage, it won't make them go get the EFC if they do not feel like it. Get over yourself.

I wish Blizzard would make two different queues: one for players that care about objectives and one for the window licking, midiots that think just out right killing others is fun.

Then how do you explain people like me who have solo queued forever and have extremely positive ratios, playing on both factions and different battlegroups?
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100 Troll Priest
16065
*snip big long list from OP*


This means absolutely nothing if teammates do not know what they are doing or refuse to use teamwork.
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100 Troll Priest
16065
10/03/2012 03:38 PMPosted by Aeøn


I am with you on this one.

You can pretend all you want that improving oneself will help your win rate but really, one person does not make a lick of difference. It is a TEAM game. You cannot force 9/14/etc other players to care about objectives and no matter how hard you rage, it won't make them go get the EFC if they do not feel like it. Get over yourself.

I wish Blizzard would make two different queues: one for players that care about objectives and one for the window licking, midiots that think just out right killing others is fun.

Then how do you explain people like me who have solo queued forever and have extremely positive ratios, playing on both factions and different battlegroups?


Luck.

If you think it's something different, you're delusional. 1 person cannot carry an entire team.
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90 Goblin Shaman
0
the thing is its a random bg most people dont care, they just get tunnel vision and all go after 1 dude to kill him instead of getting the objectives
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85 Night Elf Priest
5010
Luck.

If you think it's something different, you're delusional. 1 person cannot carry an entire team.
Luck is a factor in the short term. However the good & bad teams balance out over time. The one constant? YOU. If you think that "luck" is the most important factor over hundreds if not thousands of BGs then you are the delusional one.
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91 Undead Priest
15605
I stopped reading when I realized you're Human. Sorry.
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100 Draenei Paladin
11835
10/03/2012 09:17 PMPosted by Amathyqt
1 person cannot carry an entire team.


One person can definitely have enough of an impact to win in a random BG.


One person can make an impact, but it only goes so far. Its a team game, you cant defend all the 3-5 bases, you cant assault the enemy fc as the same time you defend your fc while he/she attempts to cap. The other day I was on a battle for gilneas, the game started and only 2 ppl went to ws. After we died because 6 horde went there I was "ok maybe they pushed mines" nope, there was like 4 ppl fighting on the road and one lonely person near mines. Just lost an IoC because pretty much all the team went to docks while half of the horde went to ws and the other went to hangar, so obviously they raped the 5 of us that went to hangar. You can make a difference but if your team is full of idiots it wont work anyway. If it did you would have a 100% win ratio.
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90 Human Priest
8940
10/03/2012 03:04 PMPosted by Katlei
Sorry if that's being defeatist.


I am with you on this one.

You can pretend all you want that improving oneself will help your win rate but really, one person does not make a lick of difference. It is a TEAM game. You cannot force 9/14/etc other players to care about objectives and no matter how hard you rage, it won't make them go get the EFC if they do not feel like it. Get over yourself.

I wish Blizzard would make two different queues: one for players that care about objectives and one for the window licking, midiots that think just out right killing others is fun.


I genuinely believe that one single(yes, yourself)player can make an impact on the team as well as to the game, either it's a negative impact or a positive impact. Of course it is a team game, but a team is consist of individuals. If everyone thinks just like you, there's no team anymore, and I'm telling you that most players that participate in the random battlegrounds are aiming for the objective at the begining of a game, until they got wpied out hardly they'd stop trying/caring the objective. And based my 3500+ random battleground games experiences, I'm telling you that if you're skilled and determined to win no matter how tough the situation goes, you'd stand a chance to win more in a long term(remember in a long term)
Yes learn to play is hard, and learn to be better than yourself from yesterday is even harder. but that's what it takes to win more.
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90 Undead Death Knight
8900
Always horde makin these threads, always alliance tellin them its not true.
CONSPURASY.
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90 Human Priest
8940
10/03/2012 09:13 PMPosted by Merciless
I stopped reading when I realized you're Human. Sorry.


Every man for himself, is not over powered.

Because, it is only random battlegrounds. In high rank arenas(which i haven't even reach there yet) it might be slightly better than other racial in many situations from my imaginations..but please don't start to think that this human racial carried me to 1750+..

I play undead too, and I think will of the forsaken is very powerful against fear classes like walocks and priests if use it wisely..
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90 Human Priest
8940


One person can definitely have enough of an impact to win in a random BG.


One person can make an impact, but it only goes so far. Its a team game, you cant defend all the 3-5 bases, you cant assault the enemy fc as the same time you defend your fc while he/she attempts to cap. The other day I was on a battle for gilneas, the game started and only 2 ppl went to ws. After we died because 6 horde went there I was "ok maybe they pushed mines" nope, there was like 4 ppl fighting on the road and one lonely person near mines. Just lost an IoC because pretty much all the team went to docks while half of the horde went to ws and the other went to hangar, so obviously they raped the 5 of us that went to hangar. You can make a difference but if your team is full of idiots it wont work anyway. If it did you would have a 100% win ratio.


I have something to say about IOC, it seems like individuals impacts don't count as much as in small maps, however, I bet you have seen sentences like" Go hangar! Glaives too squishy!" or "protect glaives !", my personal IOC preparation usually are: go to the right side gate(as an alliance), as it might give the rest of the team(for those who cares)a signal that somebody else chooses hangar. So we might have more people going for a face to face battle at hangar. I also would say something like" AOE around glaives, protect them if you go docks)

If my team won at hangar, i would usually not going to horde base simply because I know they're going to count on the demons, so I go back and kill every demons that going towards our base on the road. Then I would go docks because very often you see some stealth steal cap docks after your teammates left docks, they got glaives and they win at the end, that happens. So I go there and guard docks to make sure it doesn't used by my enemy. All in all, I make positive impact on a single IOC and I've won a lot by following the above gameplays.

please be more positive and start thinking what more can you do to be the" good part of your team", no matter you're a horde or an alliance. a 100% win rate isn't what I've been trying to achieve, to enjoy very single match as much as possible is what I've been trying/doing.
Edited by Florencia on 10/3/2012 10:43 PM PDT
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90 Human Priest
8940
To those who here saying bgs are team games, your own gameplays don't matter, please take a look at the stats of some people here saying "one CAN make an impact", do a comparison yourself. See whose mindset helps win more.
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85 Night Elf Priest
5010
10/03/2012 10:47 PMPosted by Florencia
To those who here saying bgs are team games, your own gameplays don't matter, please take a look at the stats of some people here saying "one CAN make an impact", do a comparison yourself. See whose mindset helps win more.
Well said... it's almost always bad players saying one player doesn't make a difference. The irony is they are making a difference... just in a negative way.
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