Monk Healing - Strategy for filling the gaps

100 Human Monk
11910
Ran a couple 5 man heroics last night and getting the hang of healing on my monk after healing on my paladin since TBC and I need some help filling some gaps in my healing.

The problem gap that I'm running into is burst AoE healing. When the boss does a big aoe to the group, how do you heal everyone back up quickly without relying on Revival?

If I try to rely on Renewing Mists + Uplift, it's very slow unless I've already spread renewing mists around. So, I have to either wait for Renewing mists to jump around a little bit and then pop off 1-2 Uplifts or I have to come up with some other way to handle this situation. Also, renewing mist doesn't appear to bounce to people who are at full health so I can only prep it so much for the aoe damage.

Spinning Crane Kick helps out but it doesn't appear to have the throughput needed to get everyone back up to full health with respect to the mana investment. This also ignores the positioning requirement.

Same thing with something like Chi Blast, it just doesn't feel like it's enough healing to warrant the Chi usage.

If I try to single target heal them up, it's very slow because it's 2 GCD's per person assuming that you Soothing Mists > Surging Mist. If I try to rely on my statue to heal up, it's just not enough healing.

Do I spam healing spheres underneath people while waiting for Renewing Mists to proc around? Am I missing some other spell that I should be using in this situation?
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90 Pandaren Monk
12085
I'm finding my "burst" healing in rough periods looks like this:

1) Eminence while you have both the Tiger Palm and Blackout Kick buffs up
2) SM instants from Tiger Palming
3) Use Thunder Tea and Uplift
4) If lots of adds, Rushing Jade Wind is amazing
5) For the tank, Soothing Mist + Enveloping Mist

I know everyone's on the fence about the Uplift glyph, but I'm finding that the extra Chi is great for making sure you have EM available for the tank, who'll be taking a lot more damage during aoe periods.
Edited by Thedavesan on 10/4/2012 2:33 PM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
4975
The problem gap that I'm running into is burst AoE healing. When the boss does a big aoe to the group, how do you heal everyone back up quickly without relying on Revival?


1) Eminence while you have both the Tiger Palm and Blackout Kick buffs up
2) SM instants from Tiger Palming
3) Use Thunder Tea and Uplift
4) If lots of adds, Rushing Jade Wind is amazing
5) For the tank, Soothing Mist + Enveloping Mist


1) Your melee damage is still technically single target healing... not AoE healing... so take ~75% of your dps... now divide that by 5, that's your AoE healing.

2) Still single target, and that is a lot of tiger palms just to use one single target heal

3) You say use thunder tea and uplift but you never mentioned apply renewing mist... If you actually knew what you were talking about you'd know the issue is getting burst heals off while renewing mist is still spreading since it usually takes over 5 seconds to spread to everyone. Once ReM is on every its simply a matter of spamming uplift and refreshing ReM

4) So you can do more damage? this statement does not even relate to healing effectiveness unless the group is stacking up for you.

5) Still talking about single target

You literally didn't even read her second sentence. You are an idiot and should not bother doing anything in life if you refuse to read someones argument completely. The only worthwhile thing you said was your last sentence which actually related to the issue, but did not actually propose an actual fix... in fact it was again related to single target healing.
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100 Human Monk
11910
A bunch more dungeons last night and it was feeling a little bit better, but it's definitely with a lot of people that aren't at full health. This will work in heroic 5 mans and maybe normal raids, but once I get back to hard modes, it'll probably be a stretch of "how fast can you get everyone to full health".

The one thing that I want to try is utilizing the +50% healing buff from Rushing Jade Wind and see if it increases the healing of my Spinning Crane Kick enough to warrant the mana dump.

Another thing that I'm seeing as being successful is use and abuse the Zen Sphere. I might give that a try to help cover the gap that I'm feeling.

It's like I have a bunch of different options for small scale aoe healing and one option for huge aoe healing but I need to find something that gives me either the consistent big aoe healing or something for sporadic burst aoe damage.
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90 Human Monk
6655
I wouldn't follow the meleeweaving suggestions. It's good to know how to do it, because it can be situationally useful, but it's certainly not the most important aspect of monk healing.

Your issue is that you are far too reactive. Get in the habbit of hitting renewing mist off cooldown. If you ever raid, this habit will benefit your greatly. In fact, if you get in this habbit, you may find that your mana after each pack of mobs / boss is actually in a much better spot. In this way, if your group ever does take AOE damage, you can quickly uplift.

When you are ready, you can incorporate the mini CDs. Start using thunderbrew as much as possible - it only has a 45 second cooldown. If you need AOE healing and are out of chi, get used to using Chi Brew. Chi Brew + 2 Uplift x 5 group members is amazing AOE heals.

Last but not least, never stand around not casting something. Hopefully your serpent statue is always down. Raiding, I've been favoring just spamming Soothing mist on the tank in downtime. My Chi generation is very quick by using soothing mist, renewing mist off cooldown, and throwing in an expel harm here and there.

Oh... and Zen Sphere will not cover the gap by any means. Uplift will heal for near the same amount but for half the overall chi cost. Arguably, you could Chi Burst, but that requires the group to be positioned properly.
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100 Human Monk
11910
Here's the problem I'm running into with that though... I'm not being reactive at all. I'm using RM on cooldown but if RM and Uplift is the only thing you are relying on to get people back to full health, you end up running out of Chi before getting people even halfway up. I'll have RM on them but spamming a limited amount of abilities that generate Chi in order to cast Uplift.

After the initial burst of healing when you use up your initial Chi, the healing slows down drastically. This is where I'm looking for that middle of the road heal. Or I have to glyph Uplift to be a mana cost and manage mana completely differently.

I'm trying to find something to cast when RM is on cooldown and I don't have Chi to use Uplift. This is why I'm looking at spells like SCK and Zen Sphere.
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90 Human Monk
6655
I think your better option would be to just build 2 chi quickly for another uplift. The fastest way to build 2 chi, other than jabbing, is to use expel harm + renewing mist. if RM is on CD, then I would use expel harm + soothing mist until another procs.

I'm a bit puzzled, if you are doing this already, this is more than enough healing for any heroic and arguably enough to top charts in most raid situations. So this can only mean that something unexpected happened that probably should not have happened if you still believe your group is in trouble. After exhausting my chi and my group is in dire straights, I pop Chi Brew. That's another 2 uplifts instantly. By the time I'm done casting 4 uplifts in a row, my renewing mist is probably off CD, so I'll recast that + expel harm and do another uplift. That's 5 uplifts in a row @ 25-30k heal each. If this is still not enough, Revival can get used.

So at this point, if your group is in trouble, there is something seriously wrong. What I just described is a beastly amount of group healing that is matched by no other class. If my group really needed more uplifts, I'd be using Thunder Brew off CD, and just building up Chi via renewing mist, soothing mist, and expel harm. Arguably, you can build up Chi using spinning crane kick, should everyone be stacked.

Zen Sphere also requires the group to be stacked and requires 4 chi -- 2 to put it up and 2 to explode it. This makes Uplift a more efficient use of Chi in the scenario described. Zen Sphere does not heal enough per Chi to justify its use. Similarly, Chi Burst also requires the group to be positioned in a particular way. If all your targets are already covered by renewing mist, uplift should be competitive with it's heals for the same exact chi cost.

Do you have a particular encounter or situation you are referring to? What was your HPS?
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90 Human Monk
6655
I mean, if it's that desperate, you can use soothing mist + surging mist on each target. It's mana costly, but if it's an emergency and there are no other options it's pretty effective.

What you are decribed is a problem you could say druids also have, but worse. If Tranq is off cooldown, wild growth off cooldown, swiftmend off cooldown, and rejuv is on every target, what are their options? Typically, they'd let their hots heal up their party patiently and not panic. If it was absolutely required that they heal their party quickly, they'd what -- regrowth / healing touch?

I mean, if you run out of group heals your only option is to single target heal.
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90 Pandaren Monk
12990
There's a few different ways that you can go about it but I'm not sure why you have the Chi for Zen Sphere but not the Chi for Uplift? If it's a problem of ReM not being on all the targets, you might not be using ReM on CD quite as well as you could be (though I admit Lock ad hunter pets can "steal" a jump and have screwed up my planning before).

One way is to stabilized ReM with TF Tea. This assures that the next 18 secs just about everyone should have ReM going, which by itself is a nice healing chunk, and everyone should be ok for Uplift.

SCK is another. it is mana intensive but it is meant to be your stack heal

Another is Zen Sphere, but I really think that is going to be nerfed (and soon) to be more in line with the other two talents. It's way easier to manage than ReM + Uplift and does comparable healing to a fully ReM'd 5 man Uplift while also doing extra damage OR comparable to a SCK with far more sustainability so while it's around abuse it.

You can also look at where the damage is coming from. Trash can suck, but is still trash, and ironically most heavy boss damage (in 5 mans anyway) is very avoidable, and if you are continually struggling to keep everyone up in a 5 man this is not your fault, but the fault of your group. From the sounds of your problems no healer would be having an easy time dealing with that. Either they'd have the burst but serious sustainability issues or visa versa.

Monk "filler" spells right now are Eminence meleeing or Soothing depending on whether you are working at ranged of melee.
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90 Troll Warlock
11210
I mean, if it's that desperate, you can use soothing mist + surging mist on each target. It's mana costly, but if it's an emergency and there are no other options it's pretty effective.


Actually, if you're just going to be casting Soothing only long enough to get in a Surging, then swapping to a new target, it's better to simply hard-cast Surging. The heal lands at the same time it would if you cast Soothing first (since Soothing triggers a GCD equal in length to Surging's cast time), and it only takes a single global per target instead of 2. It may seem counter-intuitive based on our mechanics generally encouraging us to use Surging from a Soothing, but in that particular case, Soothing is actually setting you back.
Edited by Daerius on 10/6/2012 3:06 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Mage
6570
If you really need to burst aoe healing, while your renewing is rolling if you need lots of chi, that's what jab is for.

jab jab uplift jab jab uplift jab jab uplift, you get the picture.

It depends how full you need them to be--if the AoE's come on gone, it might be sufficient just to thunder uplift, and let RM take care of business.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
9625
Actually, if you're just going to be casting Soothing only long enough to get in a Surging, then swapping to a new target, it's better to simply hard-cast Surging. The heal lands at the same time it would if you cast Soothing first (since Soothing triggers a GCD equal in length to Surging's cast time), and it only takes a single global per target instead of 2. It may seem counter-intuitive based on our mechanics generally encouraging us to use Surging from a Soothing, but in that particular case, Soothing is actually setting you back.

That's so true. I just manage to figure it out after watching this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzfcPijA5-w
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1 Blood Elf Rogue
0
If you actually knew what you were talking about you'd know the issue is getting burst heals off while renewing mist is still spreading since it usually takes over 5 seconds to spread to everyone.


If you actually knew what you were talking about you'd know that ReM should already be spread.

I'm trying to find something to cast when RM is on cooldown and I don't have Chi to use Uplift. This is why I'm looking at spells like SCK and Zen Sphere.


Not sure how you don't have the Chi for uplift but still get to use Zen Sphere. But your best option there is power strikes/chi brew + more uplifts. With SCK being your AoE filler.
Edited by Aureus on 10/22/2012 11:11 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
8455
If everyone is low then they're standing in stuff they shouldn't most of the time. That's the first thing to realize but if it's a fight mechanic remember Blizzard doesn't have fights in Heroics where the Tank will be taking massive damage AND the Group needs healing as well. That means concentrate on group healing for those moments since the Tank will be getting healed as well.

I'm also a proponent of melee'ing whenever I can. Just keep up Serpent's Zeal x 2 and don't stress as much about Vital Mists. The healing from Serpent's Zeal is free. That combined with 5 rolling RM's is nice steady healing. If you can be in melee do it. Even if all you do is auto attack that's free smart healing. It's also the fastest way to build Chi via Jab.

If you really want to stay at Range I'd argue that Crackling Jade Lightning is a better choice for Group healing than Soothing on the Tank due to Eminence. CJL the Boss or mob until 2 Chi then Uplift or Chi Wave/ZS etc with renewing and Mana Tea on CD. For 5 mans I like Chi Wave over the others and I'll choose Chi Wave or Uplift based on what's happening. I also like Xuen for 5 mans because of all the Eminence healing he brings.
Edited by Indyana on 10/22/2012 12:04 PM PDT
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100 Draenei Monk
9615
I would highly recommend Chi Wave over Uplift in 5 man heroics. My Chi Wave heals four people for 40k each, or heals one person for 160k, or any combination between that. It's not exactly a "smart heal", but it will more than likely land where it is needed and never be wasted. It works wonders as well when only the tank is hurt, bouncing very quickly between mobs and the tank, healing the tank almost instantly for a very large amount. On that other hand, my Uplift just heals up to 5 people for 22k each.

The only reason I see to use Uplift in a 5 man group is if everyone is very low and all need the heal immediately, as opposed to the few seconds it takes for Chi Wave to bounce around. But I don't see that very often.

And of course if you still need more group healing while Chi Wave is on cooldown, you could fit an Uplift between.

My personal take on fistweaving is the same as atonement healing for Priest. It's pretty cool to add some dps while passively healing during low/moderate damage times. But, when the damage becomes intense, it's time to forget about dps and go full healing. Continue to Jab/SCK for Chi if you need it, but other than that forget about spending your Chi to do damage. It will not be as effective as using it on real healing spells.
Edited by Crucius on 10/22/2012 2:09 PM PDT
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100 Human Monk
11910
Not sure how you don't have the Chi for uplift but still get to use Zen Sphere. But your best option there is power strikes/chi brew + more uplifts. With SCK being your AoE filler.


It's a choice between uplift and zen sphere, not using them both. SCK doesn't work as a filler because it's healing is too low in any situation where you don't have everyone stacked up and secondly it generates Chi extremely slowly due to the long cast duration of SCK. You are better off just jabbing considering the speed of the chi gain and the mana cost.

----

@Indyana
Eminence healing can't keep up a group when there is heavy raid damage. When I originally posted this comment, I wasn't having trouble healing through heroics but I found a gap that I wasn't sure what the best strategy to heal through was. This applies more towards raiding but it was a noticeable enough gap in 5 mans for me to be worried.

Since I did hit some raids, my healing has changed significantly. I'm rarely using Soothing Mists because the Chi gain is pretty much terrible. I'm hitting renewing mist on cooldown and using Zen Sphere when the group is somewhat stacked up. If not stacked, I'm using Uplift.

My statue is attributing for almost no healing which is really depressing. Soothing Mist just doesn't seem to be worth the mana cost and it's so inconsistent with the chi gain that you can't rely on it. The only time that I use it directly is when I'm focusing almost solely on tank damage (which having only one person taking damage in a raid is few and far between). I will channel Soothing Mists when a tank takes heavy damage but mainly to cast up an enveloping mist.

Trying to rely on a lot of damage-to-healing just causes me to OOM way the hell to fast with the mana costs of the abilities. Same story with using really any other major dps abilities.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
8455
10/22/2012 02:16 PMPosted by Superhero
Not sure how you don't have the Chi for uplift but still get to use Zen Sphere. But your best option there is power strikes/chi brew + more uplifts. With SCK being your AoE filler.


It's a choice between uplift and zen sphere, not using them both. SCK doesn't work as a filler because it's healing is too low in any situation where you don't have everyone stacked up and secondly it generates Chi extremely slowly due to the long cast duration of SCK. You are better off just jabbing considering the speed of the chi gain and the mana cost.

----

@Indyana
Eminence healing can't keep up a group when there is heavy raid damage. When I originally posted this comment, I wasn't having trouble healing through heroics but I found a gap that I wasn't sure what the best strategy to heal through was. This applies more towards raiding but it was a noticeable enough gap in 5 mans for me to be worried.

Since I did hit some raids, my healing has changed significantly. I'm rarely using Soothing Mists because the Chi gain is pretty much terrible. I'm hitting renewing mist on cooldown and using Zen Sphere when the group is somewhat stacked up. If not stacked, I'm using Uplift.

My statue is attributing for almost no healing which is really depressing. Soothing Mist just doesn't seem to be worth the mana cost and it's so inconsistent with the chi gain that you can't rely on it. The only time that I use it directly is when I'm focusing almost solely on tank damage (which having only one person taking damage in a raid is few and far between). I will channel Soothing Mists when a tank takes heavy damage but mainly to cast up an enveloping mist.

Trying to rely on a lot of damage-to-healing just causes me to OOM way the hell to fast with the mana costs of the abilities. Same story with using really any other major dps abilities.


Ahh...your OP is a bit confusing because you start out talking about 5 man heroics. What Raiding type? 10 Man, LFR or 25? I'm guessing you mean 10.

I would still stay in melee and get the auto attack healing from Serpent's Zeal if possible. It's free and doesn't stop you from doing other things. It also let's you use Jab when you want to get some Chi and Renewing is on CD.

It may just be that your gear is failing you. Maybe your regen plus throughput isn't high enough for the content? You could Glyph Uplift but mana seems to be an issue. Chi Burst on the Boss if aimed well can usually hit most of the Raid unless you have some ranged who like to stand off on their own. From the sims I've seen it's got a much higher Heal per Chi than Zen Sphere.
Edited by Indyana on 10/22/2012 3:15 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
17280
I find chi wave quite helpful for the gaps you're talking about, in 5mans at least.

Alternatively you can try triage heailng by just alternate soothing mist targets and surging mist on them while renewing mist spreads about.

Then once renewing mist has spread your uplift healing is ungodly.
Edited by Palawin on 10/22/2012 5:53 PM PDT
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100 Pandaren Monk
11630
U don need to fill the gaps while most ppl nearly full health. According to my exp in healing all heroic MoP dungeons, we should try the best to save mana and heal all people, don waste any mana, stack as much spirit as u can. After reaching 5k sprit, healing is easy in H dungeon, but not in raid.

My healing technique is make sure to save as much mana as possible and in the same time heal all ppl to nearly full health:
1. Cast statue. Use Renewing Mist when it available. Cast on tank and other dps who din get the buff.
2. Use expel harm when it available.
3. Use chi wave instead of zen sphere or chi burst. Chi burst is for raiding content. Zen sphere should be detonated and it cost 4 chi. Chi Wave is the MAIN healing spell after renewing mist and expel harm. Chi wave really do GREAT HEALING.
4. Use enveloping mist on ppl who get serious damage.
5. Use life cocoon on tank rather than surging mist if tank health less than 10%.
6. DON SPAM SOOTHING MIST and UPLIFT, DON WASTE MANA and CHI.

THE ONLY SPELL WE CAN SPAM IS RENEWING MIST.

When great AOE damage, use thunder focus tea + uplift and SCK.

Small AOE damage use chi wave is more than enough.

Glyph mana tea is a MUST. Drink mana tea when it available.

I use weakauras to alert me the CD of renweing mist and mana tea.

If u do like that, healing shoud not have any problem.
Edited by Xiongxiong on 10/23/2012 12:25 AM PDT
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100 Draenei Monk
9615

1. Cast statue.


This is a pretty big waste of mana when you aren't fistweaving and you advocate against spamming soothing mist. The little bit of healing you'll get off the statue from Chi Wave damage isn't worth the cost of dropping it.

For trash I mean of course. Bosses, yes use it.
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