Raiding: Cost Vs. Income : No longer Balanced

100 Undead Priest
17125
I am wondering if those that are more informed of the raiding scene could help fill in the gaps in my knowledge. As a guild, <Shard> has always provided raiding materials (from BC and on).

However given the extreme cost of raiding materials and from what I can tell the lack of ability to make any gold from raiding, I am a bit concerned we will have to end this policy.

Besides selling runs, any thoughts/comments/ideas how guilds will be able to sustain themselves as they had in the past? From what I can tell there are no BoE drops from raids and from what I know about Blood Spirit is that it drops from LFR weapons also? And that eventually the market will be flooded with them (unless they make a new level of it each raid tier). Will there be raid only patterns?
Edited by Poena on 10/5/2012 2:08 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Hunter
14925
You should try recruiting a few people that like playing the auction house over everything else. They do their auction house thing, providing gold or materials to the guild as needed. They get your guild tag and the prestige associated with it, but also should get free carries to gear and mounts once you all are comfortable enough to carry them.

I'm really just spit-balling here, because I'm not sure if you'd find anybody like that. But I know there are a lot of people that find the gold making game the most fun part of this game.
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90 Tauren Druid
17795
Mats have always been priced high at the start of expansions. Where have you been?
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100 Human Paladin
16395
10/05/2012 02:33 PMPosted by Raintola
Mats have always been priced high at the start of expansions. Where have you been?


I think OP's point was that, while mats were priced high at start of expansions, it was also very easy to make gold from raiding by selling BoE...

The cost was high, but income was also high... But now cost is high, income is low (dunno about it myself, no raiding for me this week)... That's why the title "Cost vs Income: No longer balanced"
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100 Dwarf Death Knight
18230
You can get blood spirits from deing non-weapons too, we de'd shaman legs and got one.
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90 Troll Shaman
6655
10/05/2012 02:47 PMPosted by Postonforums
You can get blood spirits from deing non-weapons too, we de'd shaman legs and got one.


Just want to further confirm this as we got trolled by RNG and had 2 drops first boss that no one could use both DE into Blood Spirit.

I agree it will be hard to make money until selling runs once again is an option.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8840
You seriously think funding raiding is expensive? What's your guild doing, buying everything on the auction house? Blood Spirit is your tough one, but not too much of a requirement.

Just on my own from getting someone to DE my greens, and mining and picking herbs on my DK while I'm leveling him, and the mote of harmony drops while I'm doing daily's and stuff:

I have a couple weeks worth of flasks, my cooking needs to get caught up to make the 300 str food, but I have the mats piled in my bank for a few weeks (just from playing the game, not even going out because I need to farm), and since cabbage is the big one in that, guess what I plant every day I'm on... I have a full set of gems, both full Str and the haste set once that starts being the higher dps. And I have the mats for every enchant, I'm just waiting until my guild starts raiding tuesday to enchant anything, I want to limit it to enchanting as little gear under 463 as possible.

The only thing I need my guild for is my leg armor.

If one person can be this self-sufficient, imagine how CHEAP raiding is when the whole guild works together.
Edited by Aldiara on 10/6/2012 7:54 AM PDT
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100 Human Paladin
aus
20635
I have been told the top level feast+575 cooking does indeed give +300 stats so people can stop qq;ing about that, sure it takes bit to get their but you only have to do it once.

A 16 plot farm from every raiders generates enough spirits for say 15 lotus each and covers the veges for feasts. I really can't see raiding being super expensive past the cost of repairs once the market has settled down.

While its true LFR will probably generate Blood spirits, in a raid every unneeded item can be disenchanted. In lfr only enchanters will be disenchanting, can't trade remember.
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100 Undead Priest
17125
Again this thread is about cost Vs. Income.

Again my guild has always supplied simply by buying off the AH. It has earned the money to supply via the money it earns from things in-raids (not from selling spots, but actual items of value).

Are Blood Spirits the only thing raiders can get to make money? If it is true they disenchant from the first/easiest boss and LFR, then I don't expect that these will be worth much gold for long.
Edited by Poena on 10/6/2012 8:51 AM PDT
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90 Orc Shaman
13550
I agree as far as flasks (Golden Lotus spawn rate needs a bit of adjusting) and feasts are concerned. Feasts are just stupid at the moment, and so is the 300 stat food.
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90 Worgen Druid
14435
Food mats are ridiculous, and a total pain in the behind if you're not out there grinding turtle meats to turn into other things. The removal of good feasts and cauldrons was stupid, inconvenience doesn't make something difficult, it makes it annoying.
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100 Dwarf Death Knight
18230
I have been told the top level feast+575 cooking does indeed give +300 stats so people can stop qq;ing about that, sure it takes bit to get their but you only have to do it once.


Just tested, does not :( getting +275 str
Edited by Postonforums on 10/6/2012 12:35 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
0
I'm pretty sure we can expect patterns in later teirs. IIRC, we never get them first teir. It's always later teirs.

I don't know if there'll be BoEs in the current teir, but again you can expect em in later teirs.

You might or might not be able to fully fund yourselves, but i don't think it'll be fundamentally different. From what i've seen, you'll be going from a cata/wotlk model, to a BC one, which put more emphasis on each member. They'll just be doing farms etc.

Budget is tighter than the last 2 expacs, but it feels pretty similar to BC, for me. It might've been because my guild was bad though.

edit:

You can probably use 275 food for most stuff, tbh. 300 is a tad expensive, it's closer to vanilla-esque.
Edited by Arianity on 10/6/2012 12:41 PM PDT
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90 Goblin Mage
14915
10/06/2012 12:39 PMPosted by Arianity
I'm pretty sure we can expect patterns in later teirs. IIRC, we never get them first teir. It's always later teirs.


The 489 patterns are raid drops, aren't they?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13905
Did you sell H-Rag and H-Madness mounts? Guilds that did made several million going in to MoP.
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90 Troll Shaman
6655
Did you sell H-Rag and H-Madness mounts? Guilds that did made several million going in to MoP.


And the guilds that didn't are strugglin.
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100 Worgen Druid
17900
I'm pretty sure we can expect patterns in later teirs. IIRC, we never get them first teir. It's always later teirs.



Vaults already drops patterns.
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100 Undead Priest
17125
I'm pretty sure we can expect patterns in later teirs. IIRC, we never get them first teir. It's always later teirs.



Vaults already drops patterns.


BoE? Or BoP?
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100 Dwarf Death Knight
18230
10/06/2012 06:58 PMPosted by Poena
BoE? Or BoP?


Boe
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90 Blood Elf Priest
0
10/06/2012 04:07 PMPosted by Keeblik
I'm pretty sure we can expect patterns in later teirs. IIRC, we never get them first teir. It's always later teirs.


The 489 patterns are raid drops, aren't they?


Oops. They might be :P

But it's not that different from other teirs. I think food will be a bit tight, but otherwise it should be comparable to BC.

10/06/2012 04:44 PMPosted by Haxzors
And the guilds that didn't are strugglin.


Same as every expac, if you're not good enough to be able to sell raid loot/runs/mounts, you're going to have to work harder and/or expect more from each member.
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