Raiding: Cost Vs. Income : No longer Balanced

90 Undead Priest
16470
10/06/2012 07:10 PMPosted by Arianity
But it's not that different from other teirs. I think food will be a bit tight, but otherwise it should be comparable to BC.


Except for flasks back then lasted 2 hours and then later split into two 1 hour flasks. While the BC flasks required more materials (3+7 herbs + 1 lotus), they were much easier to get as the mats to make them were more spread out, while the mats to make MoP flasks is limited by a BoP item that is then traded for lotus. Essentially this change to flasks make MoP flasks incredibly hard to get, and once factions are maxed, will cause an incredible shortage as people will not be out doing 25+ daily quests every day.
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90 Human Paladin
7305
The guild perk that sends gold to the guild bank should really fund almost anything you need.
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90 Tauren Druid
6910
10/06/2012 09:21 PMPosted by Poena
But it's not that different from other teirs. I think food will be a bit tight, but otherwise it should be comparable to BC.


Except for flasks back then lasted 2 hours and then later split into two 1 hour flasks. While the BC flasks required more materials (3+7 herbs + 1 lotus), they were much easier to get as the mats to make them were more spread out, while the mats to make MoP flasks is limited by a BoP item that is then traded for lotus. Essentially this change to flasks make MoP flasks incredibly hard to get, and once factions are maxed, will cause an incredible shortage as people will not be out doing 25+ daily quests every day.


In last couple days more people are hitting revered with the tillers, which means more people able to farm motes of harmony that they're going to turn in for whatever will turn them the most profit. At the moment that means golden lotus, so tons of people will be flooding the AH with Golden Lotus, bringing the price down quite a bit. As well you still have herbalists able to find the random golden lotus herbing nodes on maps, so this is not an item that is going to be in short supply.
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90 Undead Priest
16470
10/06/2012 10:31 PMPosted by Hatsune
The guild perk that sends gold to the guild bank should really fund almost anything you need.


It pays for repairs.
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90 Pandaren Monk
8870
10/06/2012 10:31 PMPosted by Hatsune
The guild perk that sends gold to the guild bank should really fund almost anything you need.


This, plus you should have sold H DS and H FL carries for 100k every week for the past six months.
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90 Undead Priest
16470
10/07/2012 05:25 AMPosted by Vendrak
In last couple days more people are hitting revered with the tillers, which means more people able to farm motes of harmony that they're going to turn in for whatever will turn them the most profit. At the moment that means golden lotus, so tons of people will be flooding the AH with Golden Lotus, bringing the price down quite a bit. As well you still have herbalists able to find the random golden lotus herbing nodes on maps, so this is not an item that is going to be in short supply.


http://www.wowhead.com/item=76061

Currency for 89 things
Reagent for ~69 (some of those things aren't in-game)

Some people might just use it for 1 of 150 other things :P
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90 Pandaren Priest
17290
It doesn't even matter if your guild bank is maxed, you won't even find most of the stuff you need to craft feasts. And even if you could, at my realms current AH prices it would cost about 5000g a stack.

If you had some pro AH campers you could probably do ok with flasks, and like people have said I think the prices on flasks & lotus will drop sharply pretty soon, but really what we need is cauldrons back, so disappointed we don't have a MoP cauldron.

I'm not sure who was in charge of professions this time around but they really dropped the ball.
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90 Orc Shaman
13750
10/06/2012 07:10 PMPosted by Arianity
Same as every expac, if you're not good enough to be able to sell raid loot/runs/mounts, you're going to have to work harder and/or expect more from each member.


That's not really my dispute, though. My dispute is that the feasts and 300 stat food just take too much effort, period.

And flasks are dumb. I mean, I have an herbalist. I shouldn't need to farm motes to turn into spirits to turn into lotuses.
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90 Pandaren Monk
8870
10/07/2012 10:44 AMPosted by Hyjinx
Same as every expac, if you're not good enough to be able to sell raid loot/runs/mounts, you're going to have to work harder and/or expect more from each member.


That's not really my dispute, though. My dispute is that the feasts and 300 stat food just take too much effort, period.

And flasks are dumb. I mean, I have an herbalist. I shouldn't need to farm motes to turn into spirits to turn into lotuses.


If you hate farming that much (and I do) just start crafting. The amount of money you make crafting is more than enough to pay for flasks, with absolutely no time spent farming anything.
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90 Human Mage
5990
They will go down in price, Flasks started at 2k last Tuesday and are now 300 this weekend so I stocked up. Sell your profession I have no problem making 2-3k a day and I am not spending alot of time in the AH.
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90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
Sounds like someone isn't taking full advantage of their new farm.

Hint: Tillers is quick to do and will save you unbelievable amounts of $$ in the long run.
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90 Orc Shaman
13750
10/07/2012 11:09 AMPosted by Zenos


That's not really my dispute, though. My dispute is that the feasts and 300 stat food just take too much effort, period.

And flasks are dumb. I mean, I have an herbalist. I shouldn't need to farm motes to turn into spirits to turn into lotuses.


If you hate farming that much (and I do) just start crafting. The amount of money you make crafting is more than enough to pay for flasks, with absolutely no time spent farming anything.


No, it's not herb farming I hate. It's that herb farming by itself doesn't support it. In previous expansions either lotus would drop with the herbs (BC, Wrath) or use a lot of something that was a common drop (Cataclysm). This herbalism model is back to vanilla where the lotus spawn on the ground. Quite simply, it sucks. Not because I hate herb farming, but because herb farming isn't working.
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90 Troll Rogue
15455
10/07/2012 03:38 PMPosted by Hyjinx
This herbalism model is back to vanilla where the lotus spawn on the ground. Quite simply, it sucks. Not because I hate herb farming, but because herb farming isn't working.


I wouldn't be suprised if they buff the drop rate of them, turning in spirits for golden lotus works fine though, if you aren't a crafter what exactly are you spending them on?
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90 Undead Priest
16470
Sounds like someone isn't taking full advantage of their new farm.

Hint: Tillers is quick to do and will save you unbelievable amounts of $$ in the long run.


I am actually running 4 farms. I will hit revered on my main today and I have 3 other sub 90s helping provide an extra 60 of w/e vegi I need each day... It actually takes me over a day to have the mats to make a single 25man feast. Read that again. 4 toons all farming a single vegi, requires more than a day to make a single 25man feast. Even at exalted when you have 16 slots, no single player can make a 25man feast in a day without doing trade-ins (@ a 1:4 conversion, it is a terrible waste of time/resources to do).
Edited by Poena on 10/8/2012 10:28 AM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
17270
I'm power leveling a second character to 90 to do more tillering, of course it is also a tauren druid with mining/herbing and max flight speed.

2 16 plots of land that you can do motes on if you want = win. Seriously though, all mat prices will drop in a month, right now everyone is just too busy gearing/doing dailies to actually farm stuff.
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90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
10/08/2012 10:27 AMPosted by Poena
I am actually running 4 farms. I will hit revered on my main today and I have 3 other sub 90s helping provide an extra 60 of w/e vegi I need each day... It actually takes me over a day to have the mats to make a single 25man feast. Read that again. 4 toons all farming a single vegi, requires more than a day to make a single 25man feast. Even at exalted when you have 16 slots, no single player can make a 25man feast in a day without doing trade-ins (@ a 1:4 conversion, it is a terrible waste of time/resources to do).
Begs the question, why are you the only person doing this? In theory you could have 6 feasts a day if your entire group pitched in.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8840
10/07/2012 10:34 AMPosted by Crazyfingers
I'm not sure who was in charge of professions this time around but they really dropped the ball.


Cauldrons, while they were a convenience we all loved, kind of shut down the market for those flasks once more guilds were getting the ability to make them.

They actually did a good job with professions this time around, it's a HUGE improvement over what it was. Tell your guild to work together and it's insanely simple for even only a 10m group to be completely self-sufficient and never need to touch the auction house.

And when it comes to food... work your way up to making your 300 stat food, and if you run out of feasts, make whatever you can. I don't remember any food that took a huge pile of all stuff you grow on your farm, but if there is one, plant your stuff smart.

If your raid group works together, EVERYTHING you'll ever need for raiding can be free
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90 Troll Hunter
11255
Begs the question, why are you the only person doing this? In theory you could have 6 feasts a day if your entire group pitched in.


The mats are still a bit much imo, no Feast prior to this one required nearly as much, even if we have farms. The mats were so little and easy to fish up, even for someone like me who absolutely hates fishing.
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90 Undead Priest
16470
Begs the question, why are you the only person doing this? In theory you could have 6 feasts a day if your entire group pitched in.


Who said my group isn't?

But that's not the point of this thread now is it?
The point of the thread is cost to raid vs. reward. Raiding has always been expensive, but then again it has always had things it could do (besides selling runs) to offset said cost. In MoP it no longer looks like that is an option.
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90 Undead Priest
16470
10/08/2012 12:07 PMPosted by Aldiara
Cauldrons, while they were a convenience we all loved, kind of shut down the market for those flasks once more guilds were getting the ability to make them.


10/08/2012 12:07 PMPosted by Aldiara
If your raid group works together, EVERYTHING you'll ever need for raiding can be free


Um these two points contradict each other.

You realize that if my raid group worked together last expansion we had EVERYTHING we needed but with less grind. Here's the thing. Grinding for flasks is not fun. Grinding for food is not fun. But at this point it is over a 1:1 ratio of time spent outside of raids for time spent inside (assuming full flasks, food, enchants, gems). In Cata we could simply raid and sell epics/patterns to pay for all of our raiding needs. Personally I won't enjoy the game more if I'm forced to do things I don't like. I thought I was supposed to be given an option this time around with the content I liked not forced to do EVERYTHING just to raid. Not forced to grind every faction via daily's, fish, and farm (literally).
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