Please implement a roll bonus system for LFD

100 Blood Elf Paladin
17060
An issue that occurs all too often in random heroics is an item being taken by someone who is not currently performing as that role. Basically, DPS taking Tank items, Tanks taking Healer items, vice versa and etc.

It really hurts to see an item that you have been trying to get for several days or even weeks, finally drop, but being taken by a person who is not even the correct role. It hurts even more when you are preparing for raids, and these items are essential to maximizing your effectiveness in raid instances, but you are never able to acquire them due to activity such as this.

I understand that there are people with offspecs, I personally am main spec Protection, with a Holy offspec. However, offspec should never have a priority over someone who needs it for mainspec, and it is still unfair to the player in the group who needs it for the spec he is currently playing as.

And then there is this:
http://i.imgur.com/YFsZJ.png

You think that guy was lying about his intention to vendor it? Here is his armory:
http://i.imgur.com/WgFEs.jpg

(Names have been removed from both screenshots, although I have contacted the person involved and informed him about this thread, so we will see if he can man up and appear here himself). Please note the lack of a protection offspec. He really did roll need on that shield to vendor it. Why? Because he could. There was nothing preventing him from taking an item that someone needed, getting rid of it and having a laugh about it. What you also don't see in the first screen shot is when he opened trade with me, pretending that he was just kidding and he was going to trade the shield to me, before dropping group mid-trade.

As I said, nothing was preventing him from doing that. The current loot system allows for role X to roll on role Y's items, and have an equal chance at winning, leading to unfairness and even griefing, as seen above. This was not just one isolated event, either. I personally have had at least 4 tank items that I needed taken by DPS, and one attempt by a DPS to take a Tank item. And of course, there are many other people out there who have had the same thing happen to them. Like I said earlier, it truly does hurt, especially after it is the 8 or so kills of the boss of not seeing the item drop.

And to the DPS out there; I am aware that this goes both ways. I think it is equally as bad for a Tank to take a DPS item when there is a DPS that needs it.

Quite frankly, there needs to be a system to give an advantage to those who need X item for it's intended role, which they are currently playing, so that this unfairness can stop. The roll bonus system that existed in 4.3 would work fine (albeit refined). If there is a person in the instance who needs an item, and another person who needs said item for offspec, the first person will be almost guaranteed to win the item. The real question is, why SHOULDN'T such a system exist in the game?
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90 Draenei Death Knight
9145
+1 to this. !@#$ing warriors taking my tank shoulders, then socketing strength, and proceeding to dps in them is pissing me off.
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89 Human Paladin
7075
There is a very simple solution to make the "unfairness" (textbook definition of irony when used in description of the need/greed system) stop:

Make your own groups of friends/guildies, and choose the loot rules you want.

It's inconvenient, you say? Well, Blizzard has made it convenient for you to run dungeons. All that's required from you is your agreement in using need/greed loot rules! Which you agree to by choosing to queue...

It's "unfair", you say? Well, luckily for you good sir/madam, there are methods already available in game to allow you to have whatever definition of "fair" you want!

Seems to me like you're going to have to make a choice. Do you choose to make your dungeon runs more "fair" in your eyes, at the expense of convenience? Or do you choose convenience over something you deem to be "unfair"?

...

Well, you're here making yet another "I lost a roll in a dungeon" thread, so it looks like you choose door #2...
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86 Orc Shaman
12560
I hate greedies in my random fungeons. I whisper them a 1 then put them on ignore and move on with my day. I back the roll bonus for LFD groups too. How many priests jacked corens coaster this year already.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
17060
There is a very simple solution to make the "unfairness" (textbook definition of irony when used in description of the need/greed system) stop:

Make your own groups of friends/guildies, and choose the loot rules you want.

It's inconvenient, you say? Well, Blizzard has made it convenient for you to run dungeons. All that's required from you is your agreement in using need/greed loot rules! Which you agree to by choosing to queue...

It's "unfair", you say? Well, luckily for you good sir/madam, there are methods already available in game to allow you to have whatever definition of "fair" you want!

Seems to me like you're going to have to make a choice. Do you choose to make your dungeon runs more "fair" in your eyes, at the expense of convenience? Or do you choose convenience over something you deem to be "unfair"?

...

Well, you're here making yet another "I lost a roll in a dungeon" thread, so it looks like you choose door #2...


So, the excuse for not adding systems for preventing griefing is "there are ways around it"? Yeah, there are. So lets use the same logic for other things in the game, eh?

There was a quest in Howling Fjord called "Mimicking Nature's Call", which was bugged so that it could not be completed for over a month. Why should Blizzard have to fix it when they can level elsewhere? Just leave the quest bugged and tell those levelers to get to Dragonblight already!

There is a quest in Ashenvale that has been bugged for 2 YEARS, and it is very hard to debug it for yourself. But it's still possible, it takes about an hour of reading wowhead comments and trying each different method until one works, but the point is that it is still possible to get around it, so why should Blizzard fix it?

The point here is, when there is an avenue for griefing in LFD, it should be closed. The excuse "just group with guildies!" doesn't really fly. What if there were no guildies online? What if the person is not in a guild and is unable to find one? Griefing should not be allowed, and having someone take an item that they don't need, or need for an offspec, is not fair when there is someone in the group that needs it for the spec they are currently performing in that instance. Just because there is a way around the problem, doesn't mean the problem shouldn't be

10/05/2012 06:57 PMPosted by Talagand
Looks like someone else lost a loot roll today. Shame we have to get a new thread every time it happens.


Referring to the initial post here:


This was not just one isolated event, either. I personally have had at least 4 tank items that I needed taken by DPS, and one attempt by a DPS to take a Tank item. And of course, there are many other people out there who have had the same thing happen to them.
Edited by Bloodelfpaly on 10/5/2012 7:21 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Druid
15645
There are three specs. Main, Off and Vendor.

Sometimes the Vendor spec is worth more than DEing. *shrug*
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89 Human Paladin
7075
10/05/2012 07:19 PMPosted by Bloodelfpaly
So, the excuse for not adding systems for preventing griefing is "there are ways around it"? Yeah, there are. So lets use the same logic for other things in the game, eh?


There is no griefing, unless you're counting the people who post threads on the forums asking for a system that works perfectly fine within it's confines to be changed simply because they feel entitled to pixels someone else won on a fair and unbiased dice roll.

10/05/2012 07:19 PMPosted by Bloodelfpaly
There was a quest in Howling Fjord called "Mimicking Nature's Call", which was bugged so that it could not be completed for over a month. Why should Blizzard have to fix it when they can level elsewhere? Just leave the quest bugged and tell those levelers to get to Dragonblight already!


Completely irrelevant, as the need/greed system is not a bug, nor does it require a work around unless you're one of the people I mentioned above.

10/05/2012 07:19 PMPosted by Bloodelfpaly
There is a quest in Ashenvale that has been bugged for 2 YEARS, and it is very hard to debug it for yourself. But it's still possible, it takes about an hour of reading wowhead comments and trying each different method until one works, but the point is that it is still possible to get around it, so why should Blizzard fix it?


Again, completely irrelevant. A bug is a different matter altogether.

10/05/2012 07:19 PMPosted by Bloodelfpaly
The point here is, when there is an avenue for griefing in LFD, it should be closed. The excuse "just group with guildies!" doesn't really fly. What if there were no guildies online? What if the person is not in a guild and is unable to find one? Griefing should not be allowed, and having someone take an item that they don't need, or need for an offspec, is not fair when there is someone in the group that needs it for the spec they are currently performing in that instance. Just because there is a way around the problem, doesn't mean the problem shouldn't be


There's a difference between "workaround" and "alternative". I suggest you look up the difference between the two words. Since there isn't a problem with the current system, unless you don't understand or choose to ignore what you agree to by queuing in it, I fail to see what you're arguing for here.

But, since you seem to be so insistent on forcing an unneeded change to a working system, let me ask you this:

If it's "unfair" for one of the other 4 members in a dungeon run to obtain a piece of loot won when they helped to down a boss, - whether or not you agree with the usage of it - why would it be okay to restrict loot to 2 roles/players, where the other 3 members of said dungeon run would have a 0% chance to win on that drop, even though they also contributed? Why would it be any more fair to restrict loot to the 3 DPSers, at the exclusion of the tank/heals?
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100 Undead Mage
7490
i got the staff from scolo taken from me by a healer...and im pissed...if it were a caster dps I wouldn't care as much but this has got to stop...iv been running that dungeon everyday.. 2-3 times and now i might just give up
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
17060

There is no griefing, unless you're counting the people who post threads on the forums asking for a system that works perfectly fine within it's confines to be changed simply because they feel entitled to pixels someone else won on a fair and unbiased dice roll.


So, in the first screenshot, you see a guy rolling need on an item he doesn't need, laughing and teasing the person who DOES need it, then going of to vendor it, and you think that is perfectly acceptable behavior and it is not griefing?

It IS griefing, and the system is NOT fine since it allows such griefing to occur.


Completely irrelevant, as the need/greed system is not a bug, nor does it require a work around unless you're one of the people I mentioned above.


Maybe not, so let's use a more relevant example: Tagging a world boss right before a raid is about to pull it. That is clearly griefing, and Blizzard fixed it when it was needed, by adding a mechanism so that if the raid group does enough damage, they get the tag regardless. But Blizzard didn't absolutely need to make this change, did they? They could have just left it, and we could have just told those raid groups to stop complaining and reset the boss so that they could get the tag. But that is not what happened, Blizzard closed down that griefing avenue and the system is better than it was before. The system before was not broken, but it had a flaw which opened up an avenue for griefing, which no longer exists in the updated system.

This is the same thing. You have a system which isn't broken, but it allows for a certain type of griefing, as seen in the screenshot. An updated system as suggested would close down this griefing opportunity.


There's a difference between "workaround" and "alternative". I suggest you look up the difference between the two words. Since there isn't a problem with the current system, unless you don't understand or choose to ignore what you agree to by queuing in it, I fail to see what you're arguing for here.


This seems to be a "Don't fix what isn't broken" argument. I am not saying that the current system is broken, I am saying that there is a flaw. The whole griefing part aside; even if someone legitimately needed it for their offspec, why should offspec needs get the same priority over mainspec needs? The person in the instance as their mainspec quite simply needs item X more than the person in there who needs it for offspec. This applies to every situation.


If it's "unfair" for one of the other 4 members in a dungeon run to obtain a piece of loot won when they helped to down a boss, - whether or not you agree with the usage of it - why would it be okay to restrict loot to 2 roles/players, where the other 3 members of said dungeon run would have a 0% chance to win on that drop, even though they also contributed? Why would it be any more fair to restrict loot to the 3 DPSers, at the exclusion of the tank/heals?


By this logic, why should Blizzard block need rolls on cloth gear to classes like my own? I contributed equally to killing the boss, so I should get an equal chance at that item, whether or not I actually need it.
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