Mistweaver PVP Thread

90 Tauren Monk
7640
Ok, so I don't see anyone posting anything for the PVP Mistweavers, so I will post what has been working for me and hopefully that will open up some discussion.

I want to preface my comments by clearly stating that I am not an amazing player, and that many of you probably have far more knowledge on the subject than I do, and that this is not meant to be any kind of end-all-be-all guide or reference.

I'm just looking to get more information to increase the effectiveness of my Mistweaving!

Talents:

Celerity: this allows you to roll up to 3 times (instead of 2), and shortens the cooldown by 5 seconds. Not only does this allow you more mobility, but the PVP glove bonus removes snares when you roll, so rolling more = more snare removal.

Zen Sphere: I choose this talent because it places a HoT on the target, (which I like to combine with Renewing Mists and Enveloping Mists to make your healing target extremely hard to kill) and also allows you to cast Zen Sphere on the same target while Zen Sphere is active and it performs an AOE heal/damage. This allows you to time the discharge of the second Zen Sphere for when your healing target is in the middle of a crowd.

Also, if you have 4 Chi, you can cast Zen Sphere twice in a target for instant burst AOE healing.

I like this over the alternatives because Chi Burst is directional and I have less control over Chi Wave's AOE capability.

Ascension: I take Ascension because 5 Chi allows me to get an Enveloping Mist (3 Chi) and Zen Sphere (2 Chi) on my healing target at the same time from a full bar of Chi. It also helps ensure I am not wasting Chi by using abilities which earn Chi will I am at a full bar of 4.

Also, the other 2 abilities (Power Strikes and Chi Brew) are lackluster. Chi Brew is the only obvious alternative but I find I get more use out of being able to stack and use 5 Chi more regularly than the 1.5 min CD on Chi Brew.

Leg Sweep: I'm actually a little torn with this decision because I really want to take Deadly Reach (20 yard paralysis) so I can assist with CC for kills, or lower incoming damage or incapacitate caster so I can get a free heal without being silenced, but I find that with so many strong melee classes, this really is the most effective too of the 3 choices.

Plus, the Leg Sweep stun doesn't break on damage like Paralysis, so it's better for helping secure a kill on a focus target.

Healing Elixirs: I choose this talent because I am glyphed into Mana Tea which causes my Mana Tea ability to instantly consume 2 Mana tea (not channeled), but places a 10 second CD. The Healing Elixirs talent grants me a heal for 10% of my max health every 10 seconds.

This is great because Monks are a bit of a mana hog, so this amounts to a free, instant heal every 10 seconds for an amount that scales with buffs and gear.

I've used Diffuse Magic (which is think is a great ability), and Dampen Harm (which I've found to be fairly lame for survivability), but overall I'm finding I get more mileage out of Healing Elixirs than either of the alternatives.

Chi Torpedo: Overall, I feel our level 90 abilities are lackluster, but out of the choices, Chi Torpedo couples a heal with your mobility and isn't nearly as wonky as trying to fire a tornado (Rushing Jade Wind) directionally and then SCK everyone to for additional healing.

Glyphs:

Glyph of Mana Tea: This is awesome, no channeling - just chug 2 Mana Teas on the run. The real value of this in PVP is that Monks are such a high mobility class that we don't have time to sit around channeling Mana Tea.

Glyph of Fortifying Brew: Extra 5% damage reduction on your Fortifying Brew. I'm a bit of a survivability hog, so this was a no-brainer for me.

Glyph of Life Cocoon: Again, with so many stuns in the game now, I find it to be extremely valuable to pop LC while stunned. Your mileage may vary.

Glyph of Water Roll This ability is fantastic for crossing the river in Twin Peaks (with the flag, or without) or cutting through the water on the backside of the BS to get to the LM or Stables. You just roll across the water!

Fantastic Abilities:

Transcendence: If you aren't abusing the hell out of this ability, even if only for a good laugh - you're doing it wrong. In my opinion, this is one of the best teleports in the game! No line of sight, 40 yard range, .5 second cast to set and port, it doesn't drop the flag in WSG/TP, and your transfer point changes to where you last ported from! This means that the other team isn't going to be able to easily keep track of where your port was last set!

Spinning Crane Kick: Amazing for hitting cappers or popping stealthies.

Grapple Weapon: 40 yard ranged disarm which buffs your damage or healing if you steal a "better" main hand weapon than your own? Yes, please.

Disable: Root a snared target, or snare the target and root it! This is great for helping to keep melee off you.

Paralysis: 5 second disorient on a 15 second CD is OP, use it.

Spear Hand Strike: 5 second silence on a 15 second CD, this is great to use in conjunction with Paralysis to really help shut down a caster/healer.

Thunder Focus Tea: This is a great ability for 2 reasons! The first is that it boosts your next surging mist by 100%, or causes your next Renewing Mist to refresh the duration of all Renewing Mists (which is nice, if you are good at keeping RM up). Second, your 4pc PVP bonus grants you 5 seconds of interrupt immunity (just like Priests and Pallies get).

Macros

Since we have access to so many abilities, I've chosen to use Help/Harm macros to consolidate the number of hotkeys I need to use. This means that targeting a friendly player will cause the [help] ability to go off, and targeting an enemy will cause the [harm] ability to go off. The Help/Harms I use are as follows:

#showtooltip
/cast [help]renewing mist; [harm]disable

#showtooltip
/cast [help]soothing mist; [harm]grapple weapon

#showtooltip
/cast [help]surging mist; [harm]Paralysis

#showtooltip
/cast [help]enveloping mist; [harm]spear hand strike

Because they are some of my most used abilities, I have them placed on my 1-4 hotkeys and doing so condenses 8 abilities into 4 hotkeys.

Addons

Interrupt Bar: This is a fantastic addon for seeing how long you have until your opponent has their interrupts/silences back up, so you know when to freecast. This (or something similar) is a must for any PVP healer.

Tidy Plates w/Plate Buffs: This combination places large icons on the players around you to let you know what debuffs they are effected by, and makes it faster and easier to see who needs that critical dispel.

Thoughts on the Spec:

Overall, I'm having a blast playing Mistweaver. The mobility is amazing and the playstyle is engaging. The only things i would like to see changed are the following:

Leg Sweep: This ability is a little buggy and sometimes doens't hit the person you are standing on top of. Good luck if you are trying to hit someone running past you!

Surging Mist: Mistweavers are a bit of a mana hog, even if maximizing your Chi heals, and Surging Mist is the main culprit. I would love to see the mana cost of this scaled back from 24k to maybe even 20k.

Revival: I love this ability, and I love the fact that it dispels your entire party or raid, but there is a very good chance someone in that raid or party is going to have some type of crazy dispel protection on them (unstable affliction), and you are going to get whacked with the result. Not sure what fix, if any, there is for this, but it's annoying and I probably just need to L2P.

Mastery: I'm finding that for your Mastery to be effective, your team needs to essentially plan the fight around little green balls of healing goodness. Now, I am not all for dumbing the game down or catering to the lowest common denominator, but I can't get my team to do simple things like hit cappers, CC healers, don't stand in crap that kills you, so there is very little chance they are going to take advantage of my balls.

I know that Mistweaver master is probably better in PVE, but I would love to see our mastery be something which we were in control of like:

1) A chance to proc an extra mana tea on healing/damage (or while taking damage)
2) A chance to proc Renewing Mist on an injured target (because RM is pain to keep up)
3) A chance for Soothing Mist to proc additional Chi

Transcendence

Abuse the hell out of this ability, almost nobody knows you have it and it's devastating on most maps. Always make sure you place it down at the beginning of a match, then be smart about where you teleport FROM because that becomes your return point for your next teleport unless you replace Transcendence manually.

In a pinch you can drop the portal with melee on you, roll (once, twice, thrice) and teleport back and nobody will have a clue where you went. It's good times.

Please feel free to add any comments, questions or feedback!

Thanks,

Ruxxian
Edited by Ruxxian on 10/7/2012 6:39 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
6270
Bookmarking, hope to read after work! Sounds legit though
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90 Human Monk
10555
I thought this was a great write up and I agree with pretty much everything you've said. Although I'm still unsure if I want to take this character into the arena season as I was considering my shaman. The current state of monk healing is definitely fun and different than any other healer I've played, which I quite enjoy TBH.
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90 Orc Monk
7065
This thread makes me happy. I plan on going Brewmaster for PVE and Misty for PVP. Bookmarked.
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90 Pandaren Monk
6270
After a read through I do find this helpful. I will state one flaw I see with MW lvl and that is the lack of focus surv. I did some arenas last night and I must say, if we get focused, silenced or cced there is little we can do to help our teammates. Need a bubble of some kind or something because with our main heals based around a channeled spell, there is just to much that can go wrong
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90 Tauren Monk
7640
10/06/2012 10:54 AMPosted by Breezebender
After a read through I do find this helpful. I will state one flaw I see with MW lvl and that is the lack of focus surv. I did some arenas last night and I must say, if we get focused, silenced or cced there is little we can do to help our teammates. Need a bubble of some kind or something because with our main heals based around a channeled spell, there is just to much that can go wrong


I will be doing my first arenas on my Monk tonight, but I agree with you.

I've found that while on my Holy Pally/Disc Priest/Rest Shaman I can shrug off an attacker or two for a little bit while healing others before I have to worry about myself, but with my Monk I need to immediately focus on escaping (Disable, Disarm, Roll, Paralysis, Transcendence, etc) AND healing because it doesn't take long for things to escalate quickly.
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90 Tauren Monk
7640
So after doing a few arenas last night, this is what I've found:

Our mobility is CRAZY! But our longevity is very short if required to heal through tons of burst.

1v1 and in some cases 1v2, nothing should catch you for a long period of time with the number of escapes we have.

Also, your silence, leg sweep, and incapacitate can be used to help score a kill, and your disarm can help take a lot of pressure off of your team.

I only did 5's last night, but I had a blast on my MW.
Edited by Ruxxian on 10/7/2012 6:32 AM PDT
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90 Orc Monk
7065
Thanks for the updates...how do you think we'll fair for RBGs?
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90 Pandaren Monk
7500
I'm enjoying healing as Mistweaver in arenas and even more so in battlegrounds, however I'm having a frustratingly hard time getting myself into melee range to set up a CC chain; which for me is Paralysis into Leg Sweep into Quaking Palm back into-ish Paralysis followed by a silence. I find myself over-rolling when trying to close the distance between myself and my target. Trying to just stay in melee range is hard enough, considering I'm stopping to channel my Soothing Mist. Having the extra CC from Leg Sweep seems like it is the right choice in this CC-heavy season, but the range on Paralysis just -felt- nice.

And with Paralysis, I may just be playing it wrong, but it still feels like half a CC with its positional requirement -- especially when you've talented into Deadly Reach.

I've also found that I'm able to burn through mana really quickly during the first minute of an arena but am then able to sustain myself between 10%-20% mana for the remainder of the fight. Since I'm able to sustain a healthy heal cycle at low mana it is more of a non-issue for me. In comparison to Druids, Paladins and Shaman, the difference in mana conservation is blindingly obvious.

More methods to generate chi would be dandy, like having a chance to generate chi on HoT ticks or having the percentage chance to generate a chi with Soothing Mist respond to your personal stats.

This is my first season in both the 3v3 bracket and as a healer, so I certainly have room to grow and improve, but my initial impressions are that while Monks are able to provide excellent burst and emergency heals, that there are better choices for healers to bring to provide your team with a stronger CC base.

Despite sitting through Paladin CC after Paladin CC in the arenas, I'm still having fun with the class and definitely would recommend my fellow monks try it out.
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90 Tauren Monk
7640
I'm enjoying healing as Mistweaver in arenas and even more so in battlegrounds, however I'm having a frustratingly hard time getting myself into melee range to set up a CC chain; which for me is Paralysis into Leg Sweep into Quaking Palm back into-ish Paralysis followed by a silence. I find myself over-rolling when trying to close the distance between myself and my target. Trying to just stay in melee range is hard enough, considering I'm stopping to channel my Soothing Mist. Having the extra CC from Leg Sweep seems like it is the right choice in this CC-heavy season, but the range on Paralysis just -felt- nice.

And with Paralysis, I may just be playing it wrong, but it still feels like half a CC with its positional requirement -- especially when you've talented into Deadly Reach.

I've also found that I'm able to burn through mana really quickly during the first minute of an arena but am then able to sustain myself between 10%-20% mana for the remainder of the fight. Since I'm able to sustain a healthy heal cycle at low mana it is more of a non-issue for me. In comparison to Druids, Paladins and Shaman, the difference in mana conservation is blindingly obvious.

More methods to generate chi would be dandy, like having a chance to generate chi on HoT ticks or having the percentage chance to generate a chi with Soothing Mist respond to your personal stats.

This is my first season in both the 3v3 bracket and as a healer, so I certainly have room to grow and improve, but my initial impressions are that while Monks are able to provide excellent burst and emergency heals, that there are better choices for healers to bring to provide your team with a stronger CC base.

Despite sitting through Paladin CC after Paladin CC in the arenas, I'm still having fun with the class and definitely would recommend my fellow monks try it out.


To generate and pump out AOE heals I've been doing:

Renewing Mist -> Jab x 4 -> Uplift x 2
Renewing Mist a second target -> Jab x 4 -> Uplift x 2

It's fast for burning Chi and charging up Mana Tea, not to mention crazy AOE heals.

If your team is grouped up then just swap ZS in for RM.
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90 Pandaren Monk
8530
Good write up, thanks.
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100 Human Monk
6510
I have no pvp experience yet(taking advantage of enlightenment), but I do disagree with some of your talent decisions.

Tier One: I guess the first tier comes down to how much of a support player you want to be. I took Tiger's Lust because I figured the utility it provides to other players(since it can be cast on them) is more valuable than an extra Roll.

Then again, perhaps I'll find mobility to be an issue at 90 and I'll need the extra Roll.


Tier Two: I like Zen Sphere, though I tend to keep going back to Chi Wave. Honestly, I'd absolutely love it if Chi Blast felt a bit more useful. But it feels like it needs to line up perfectly to be a good AoE damage/heal, which will seldom happen in PvP. Especially with a cast time.

Tier Three: I prefer Power Strikes. Ideally I don't think any monk should be letting themselves get Chi capped, which makes Ascension almost an aid to the handicapped. If you have four Chi, that means you can cast an instant Enveloping Mist...so why not?

Tier Four: I prefer Charging Ox Wave. Aside from how badass it looks, the "line" it travels is wide enough that you can still stun multiple people right in front of you. In fact, if you line it up well, you can stun a lot of people. Leg Sweep is better for getting people behind you of course, but it's melee-only. Since Mistweaver's function both in melee and at range, why not take advantage of it and take an ability that also functions well at melee and range?

I obviously haven't gotten past those talent tiers, but it's just how I feel so far.
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90 Tauren Monk
7640
I have no pvp experience yet(taking advantage of enlightenment), but I do disagree with some of your talent decisions.

Tier One: I guess the first tier comes down to how much of a support player you want to be. I took Tiger's Lust because I figured the utility it provides to other players(since it can be cast on them) is more valuable than an extra Roll.

Then again, perhaps I'll find mobility to be an issue at 90 and I'll need the extra Roll.


Tier Two: I like Zen Sphere, though I tend to keep going back to Chi Wave. Honestly, I'd absolutely love it if Chi Blast felt a bit more useful. But it feels like it needs to line up perfectly to be a good AoE damage/heal, which will seldom happen in PvP. Especially with a cast time.

Tier Three: I prefer Power Strikes. Ideally I don't think any monk should be letting themselves get Chi capped, which makes Ascension almost an aid to the handicapped. If you have four Chi, that means you can cast an instant Enveloping Mist...so why not?

Tier Four: I prefer Charging Ox Wave. Aside from how badass it looks, the "line" it travels is wide enough that you can still stun multiple people right in front of you. In fact, if you line it up well, you can stun a lot of people. Leg Sweep is better for getting people behind you of course, but it's melee-only. Since Mistweaver's function both in melee and at range, why not take advantage of it and take an ability that also functions well at melee and range?

I obviously haven't gotten past those talent tiers, but it's just how I feel so far.


Commenting on the Mistweaver PVP thread and starting off by saying "I have no PVP experience" ^.^
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90 Night Elf Druid
9100
Tier Four: I prefer Charging Ox Wave. Aside from how badass it looks, the "line" it travels is wide enough that you can still stun multiple people right in front of you. In fact, if you line it up well, you can stun a lot of people. Leg Sweep is better for getting people behind you of course, but it's melee-only. Since Mistweaver's function both in melee and at range, why not take advantage of it and take an ability that also functions well at melee and range?


The first time I saw that spell it was really easy to avoid. I was about 10-15 yards away and thought "iunno atf that is but im going to get out of the way... yep stunned the guy behind me" Seems like it needs to be a lil faster to hit people who arent in your face.
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100 Human Monk
6510
10/08/2012 09:23 AMPosted by Ruxxian
Commenting on the Mistweaver PVP thread and starting off by saying "I have no PVP experience" ^.^


And you have like...a week?

You should be criticizing my points, not my background.
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90 Pandaren Monk
11615
Thank you for starting this thread. Mistweaver PVP is unlike anything I've ever played before and I am finding it very challenging. In particular, I am finding that I have difficulty dealing with focus fire from multiple bad guys. If I pop Fortifying Brew/Life Cocoon/Leg Sweep/Dampen Harm I survive a bit longer, but we don't appear to have any particular go-to spell for dealing with focus fire---Transcendence if you had time to prep, but it's hard to lay that down if the fight's already started.

Overall, I am finding my heals to be barely capable of dealing with incoming damage, even 1-on-1. I was punked just today by a green lvl 85 DK...whatever I was doing to heal wasn't even close to keeping up with the damage he was laying on me. I am hoping this gets better at 90 with resilience and PVP power.
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90 Tauren Monk
7640
Thank you for starting this thread. Mistweaver PVP is unlike anything I've ever played before and I am finding it very challenging. In particular, I am finding that I have difficulty dealing with focus fire from multiple bad guys. If I pop Fortifying Brew/Life Cocoon/Leg Sweep/Dampen Harm I survive a bit longer, but we don't appear to have any particular go-to spell for dealing with focus fire---Transcendence if you had time to prep, but it's hard to lay that down if the fight's already started.

Overall, I am finding my heals to be barely capable of dealing with incoming damage, even 1-on-1. I was punked just today by a green lvl 85 DK...whatever I was doing to heal wasn't even close to keeping up with the damage he was laying on me. I am hoping this gets better at 90 with resilience and PVP power.


I started not feeling that way once I started to max out on my blue PVP gear.

I really try to be proactive about keeping Renewing Mist/Zen Sphere on myself to keeps the HoTs rolling, and always be ready to mash the expel harm key.

Keep in mind that your 4pc PVP set makes Thunder Focus Tea give you 5 seconds of immunity to interrupts AND doubles the heal of your next surging mist - so pop this and heal right in the face of melee.

Also, most ppl in BG's and such are horrible with interrupts and will blow their silence/pummel into your immunity and this allows you to then heal further while their interrupt is down.

Your teleport doesnt take much time to set up, less than .5 second cast. Cast it -> roll, wait for melee to catch you -> teleport and roll away again and you get massive distance, especially since many ppl won't have put together exactly where you are for a few seconds.

Against DK's you can roll put down teleport, wait for them to DG you, then teleport away.

For survivability, I've taken the PVP trinket which gives you +40k health, and this is amazing for helping you out when you're silenced/interrupted.

Also, if you get locked out, you can still cast SCK, which will give you some heals while you are interrupted.
Edited by Ruxxian on 10/8/2012 12:20 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
11615
You are wise.
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90 Tauren Monk
7640
10/08/2012 10:52 AMPosted by Draile
Commenting on the Mistweaver PVP thread and starting off by saying "I have no PVP experience" ^.^


And you have like...a week?

You should be criticizing my points, not my background.


Tier Two: I like Zen Sphere, though I tend to keep going back to Chi Wave. Honestly, I'd absolutely love it if Chi Blast felt a bit more useful. But it feels like it needs to line up perfectly to be a good AoE damage/heal, which will seldom happen in PvP. Especially with a cast time.


I think Chi Wave is a decent talent, I just like Zen Sphere because I have more control over it, and it stays on the target I cast it on as a HoT instead of bouncing around.

Tier Three: I prefer Power Strikes. Ideally I don't think any monk should be letting themselves get Chi capped, which makes Ascension almost an aid to the handicapped. If you have four Chi, that means you can cast an instant Enveloping Mist...so why not?


With Jab you can build Chi so fast that one extra Chi every 20 seconds doesn't compare to having 1 extra Chi available at all times. The extra Chi doesn't sound like much, but it actually helps your burst/throughput more than you think, which also helps your Mana Tea getting built up.

Tier Four: I prefer Charging Ox Wave. Aside from how badass it looks, the "line" it travels is wide enough that you can still stun multiple people right in front of you. In fact, if you line it up well, you can stun a lot of people. Leg Sweep is better for getting people behind you of course, but it's melee-only. Since Mistweaver's function both in melee and at range, why not take advantage of it and take an ability that also functions well at melee and range?


This has a travel time, and is directional, which just leaves room for error. I personally believe that Leg Sweep is an amazing ability for keeping melee off us (especially with the way melee is atm).

There is also the difference between COW has a 3 sec stun w/travel time and leg sweep being an instant 5 second stun.

I also find that I use Leg Sweep in conjunction with Paralysis and Spear Hand Strike which to secure kills in arena which means I am in melee range anyhow.
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90 Tauren Monk
7640
10/08/2012 12:14 PMPosted by Fatcobra
You are wise.


Oh, and don't forget your Grapple Weapon for survivability!

I love to hit Ret's with it when they pop wings, or Warriors right before they charge you so you are stunned and they are bare knuckle punching you.

And Glyph of Life Cocoon, so you can use it while Deep Freezed/HoJ'd/Warrior Stunned is amazing, too!
Edited by Ruxxian on 10/8/2012 12:21 PM PDT
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