Ink Trader Exchange Change

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90 Troll Druid
11105
Yeah this trinket is the same i get from using Symbiosis on a monk 10% dodge on a 1 min CD which is nice but for a trinket is pretty horrible. I may be wrong but at least with using Symbiosis it is 10% dodge which I wouldn't think would give DR just add 10% on the current amount you have with this trinket you have DR that makes it get even worse as gear gets better.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
12120
Are they planning on buffing the Darkmooon Oxen Deck, Relic of Niuzao card?

The card is really really really terrible as it is now. I assumed it was just a error or something.


Not to derail the thread, but are there specific bits of feedback for it you can share (or have?) I can pass it along.


Currently the other darkmoon cards have a primary stat plus a proc. The oxen card is the only one with no primary stat.
While it's on use makes it more clutch (can be counted on or used as a survivability cooldown), it's lack of a primary stat make many other trinkets much more highly rated.

Take a comparison of these two trinkets for example:

Relic of Niuzao The on-use is approximately 10% dodge, give or take a little bit because of DR.

Iron Protector Talisman The proc is roughly 3.83% and there is all the stam on the trinket already

Looking at the other DMC:

Relic of Xuen 956 Str base, proc for 3027 str

Relic of Chi Ji 956 Int base, proc for 3027 spirit

Relic of Yu'lon 956 Int base, proc for 3027 int

From this comparison the Ox card is "back-loaded" all in the on-use, instead of having a primary stat and then a smaller proc/on-use.

Almost no tank I know is even considering it as a viable trinket for anything more than ilvl and the prices of the cards/decks on at least my realm reflect that as well.

I personally would consider using the Str dps Relic as a tank trinket before using the "tank" trinket because of how much better the parry given by strength scales over how dodge scales. (When you take into consideration, diminishing returns that is.)

While by no means are we expecting it to be the perfectly itemized trinket for tanks that will last us several tiers, in order for it to be truly viable it would definitely need a primary stat in the least.

-Ark
Edited by Arkness on 10/8/2012 2:02 PM PDT
Community Manager
Respectfully, the on use (1 min CD) 8871 Dodge (10%@ lvl 90) for 12 seconds with no static stats is hardly attractive for many fights.

Surely not worth the trouble of collecting cards for, unless your just hoping for an item level buff or something.

It desperately needs a buff to even be viable in the first tier imo. When I first saw the trinket I assumed it was an oversight or possibly a tool tip problem.

Thank you.


Respectfully, the on use (1 min CD) 8871 Dodge (10%@ lvl 90) for 12 seconds with no static stats is hardly attractive for many fights.

Surely not worth the trouble of collecting cards for, unless your just hoping for an item level buff or something.

It desperately needs a buff to even be viable in the first tier imo. When I first saw the trinket I assumed it was an oversight or possibly a tool tip problem.

Thank you.


Gotcha. I'll pass along the feedback for you.
90 Troll Druid
16745
Are they planning on buffing the Darkmooon Oxen Deck, Relic of Niuzao card?

The card is really really really terrible as it is now. I assumed it was just a error or something.


Not to derail the thread, but are there specific bits of feedback for it you can share (or have?) I can pass it along.


There are two issues with it:

1. It's horribly itemized. It needs some static benefit. Like stamina, or maybe mastery.

2. It's well under-budget. The other four trinkets are budgeted about right for item level 476 trinkets. The Niuzao relic grants an average of 1774 dodge, while the DPS trinkets grant an average of 1461 agi/str/int. (Actually, an ilvl 476 trinket should grant 1475 stats, but close enough). Niuzao is budgeted as an ilvl 353.5 item. It would have been bad last expansion.

It would need to grant 2922 average dodge to be equivalent to the DPS trinkets, or 14610 for 12 seconds on a 60 second CD. Or better yet, if you give it the same 1434 stamina as the other ilvl 476 trinkets and put the rest of its budget into an on-use effect, you get 10106 dodge... a bit above the 8871 that's on there now. This looks more like an unintentional omission than an intentionally bad trinket.

TL;DR: Someone forgot to put 1434 stamina on the Relic of Niuzao. Please fix.
Edited by Casa on 10/8/2012 2:09 PM PDT
Is there an answer for my question on whether it is a hotfix or a client patch?
90 Orc Death Knight
11585
With many fights having lots of avoidable burst damage, or mechanics that render dodge useless (garajals fists, WotE combo) having something that provides nothing but dodge on a cd does not appeal to most tanks. That and most heavy damage attacks (epicenter, draw flame, total annihilation) are all magic damage.
In addition, its just not fun. A trinket like this on such a short cd will probably just be macroed into a normal attack rather than being saved for useful situations. And how on earth does an image of Niuzao, the Black Ox, a gigantic beast who built his temple atop the sha of fear to keep it locked away for eternity conjure images of dodging. If you are dedicated to the idea of a one minute cd with no base stats make the cd more appealing.
90 Night Elf Death Knight
13330
Are they planning on buffing the Darkmooon Oxen Deck, Relic of Niuzao card?

The card is really really really terrible as it is now. I assumed it was just a error or something.


Not to derail the thread, but are there specific bits of feedback for it you can share (or have?) I can pass it along.


The lack of stamina on the trinket makes it next to worthless. 10% dodge is already a marginal extra cooldown (especially for tanks that don't rely on avoidance as their primary method of mitigation), but when you compare it to the 463 Iron Protector Talisman it just pales in comparison.

Historically, DPS or healing Darkmoon cards have seen use for multiple tiers and this set seems to be the same. Why can't the tank card have a similar usefulness? A simple fix would be to put a nice chunk of Stamina or mastery on the trinket, which would instantly raise its value, especially for tanks that rely on self healing for survival.

No tank I know would use the card in its present form, which is a real shame given its cost to create.
90 Undead Priest
16470
I might have enjoyed the first two weeks of MoP had you done this change back then. Making 2 cards a day was brutal.

Oh well, I got my card and ~2k ink of dreams ready to be converted. Free shoulder enchants for all!

Also plz buff the tank trinket. It's terrible (two xpacs in a row)
90 Draenei Shaman
10055
Respectfully, the on use (1 min CD) 8871 Dodge (10%@ lvl 90) for 12 seconds with no static stats is hardly attractive for many fights.

Surely not worth the trouble of collecting cards for, unless your just hoping for an item level buff or something.

It desperately needs a buff to even be viable in the first tier imo. When I first saw the trinket I assumed it was an oversight or possibly a tool tip problem.

Thank you.


Gotcha. I'll pass along the feedback for you.


Thank you! We certainly appreciate it!
85 Night Elf Druid
6720
First of all Nethaera, thanks for getting the word out about this change. I'm one of the top DM sellers on my server, I leveled 11 scribes to give me enough daily CD's to be able to make a good number of DM cards in the new system. In the old system, I made over 500 trinks on just one toon. Now it takes far more investment to make them. In Cata, whenever a scribe saw a Stones card his or her heart sank because (s)he knew that (s)he would have to sell that tanking card/deck for a loss. That was true all through Cata that the tank card, Earthquake, sold for far less than the cost of mats to produce it.

I think all scribes hoped this time around that Blizzard would provide a very strong card for the tanks. Sadly, I do not think they have done so. If anything, the new card is much worse relative to the other DM cards. I would ask that Blizz if you cannot buff the tank trinket that you please make it so scribes can "opt out" of the chance to make that trinket so that we would be able to only make the other 3, all of which have good demand. On my server, the trinkets are mostly listed between 100K and 200K and actually selling between 80-120,000G for the Tiger, Cranes and Serpents. Tiger and Cranes are especially desired. Nobody wants the Oxen trinket, I was offered one for 2,000G and I refused. Sadly, the scribe who made that and is trying to sell for 2,000G probably spent 20,000G to make the trinket as well as a lot of time. Now I know he will hopefully make enough profit from sales of the good trinkets to make up for this, but it's still sad to invest so much to make something and get a product the market views as nearly worthless.

I don't play any tanks myself, but I spoke to one tank and he told me he would not take the DMC tanking trinket if it was free. He mentioned the Brewfest trinket, which he obtained in a few minutes of effort, is far superior though a few ilvl's lower. He said the ONLY possible value of the DM Oxen tank trink is to raise your ilvl a tiny bit to get into LFR to try and get something better. That is just sad for an item which we invest so much in making. I sold more than 40 of the Cata DM trinks last month, meaning I was still selling those trinks profitably almost 2 years after they came out. Seems silly I can't sell something that just came out last week!

And of course furthermore, we wish as scribes that we DID have a high-quality product to offer to those customers who play tanks. I love making a powerful item and helping people gear their toons, that is why I love inscription over all crafts. I do it only because of DM cards, not the glyphs by any means. And it would just be a lot nicer if all 4 trinkets were of quality and value! I'm sure a tank can better explain why the actual stats on the Oxen trinket are not desirable, so I will leave that to a tank. But just the fact that the market data clearly show that the Oxen trinkets are not valued anything like the others, or even enough to pay material costs, hopefully should be influential toward a change. Kindest regards, Sendai on behalf of himself and the 10 other scribes I am managing!
will this be applied via a hotfix?
90 Night Elf Druid
9985
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!
90 Troll Druid
16745
10/08/2012 02:45 PMPosted by Baillan
will this be applied via a hotfix?


You've asked four times now, so I'm actually curious. Why does it matter if it's in a hotfix or a small patch?
Patches can often be a problem for me so I am curious.. and have gotten no responses.
Community Manager
10/08/2012 02:02 PMPosted by Baillan
Is there an answer for my question on whether it is a hotfix or a client patch?


This is planned to go in as a hotfix.
Thank you <3
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