Healing Priest Hotfix (Incoming)

90 Pandaren Priest
TF
6360
Some rough numbers with my current gear. Mastery has been factored in for the applicable spells.

PoH (5 targets) - 121961 healing/9.03 HPM/54205 HPS
PoH (4 targets) - 97569 healing/7.22 HPM/43364 HPS
PoH (3 targets) - 73177 healing/5.42 HPM/32523 HPS
Renew (Glyphed/Sanc) - 49799 healing/7.511 HPM/49799 HPCT
Renew (Glyphed/Serenity) - 57270 healing/8.64 HPM/57270 HPCT
CoH (Glyphed/Sanc) - 101991 healing/9.26 HPM/75549 HPS

After the hotfix:
PoH (5 targets) - 152451 healing/11.29 HPM/67756 HPS
PoH (4 targets) - 121961 healing/9.03 HPM/54205 HPS
PoH (3 targets) - 91471 healing/6.77 HPM/40654 HPS
Edited by Ceddya on 10/10/2012 11:26 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
HC
9450
Some rough numbers with my current gear. Mastery has been factored in for the applicable spells.

PoH (5 targets) - 121961 healing/9.03 HPM/54205 HPS
PoH (4 targets) - 97569 healing/7.22 HPM/43364 HPS
PoH (3 targets) - 73177 healing/5.42 HPM/32523 HPS
Renew (Glyphed/Sanc) - 49799 healing/7.511 HPM/49799 HPCT
Renew (Glyphed/Serenity) - 57270 healing/8.64 HPM/57270 HPCT
CoH (Glyphed/Sanc) - 101991 healing/9.26 HPM/75549 HPS

After the hotfix:
PoH (5 targets) - 152451 healing/11.29 HPM/67756 HPS
PoH (4 targets) - 121961 healing/9.03 HPM/54205 HPS
PoH (3 targets) - 91471 healing/6.77 HPM/40654 HPS


Wow thats substantial.

Minus the one number that twisted got attention from, the rest of his post is spot on. It'll break some spell balance pretty badly.

Posting spell scaling in BiS T14 gear might be a good way to compare whether this will break things later or not.

I believe SimC already has a full disc profile that should be good enough to math this out. Check the T14H profiles, and click on the disc parse and find the stats in the datasheet.
Edited by Advanced on 10/10/2012 11:32 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Priest
TF
6360
Eh, looking at these numbers, I'm still going to cast CoH as it has higher burst and is a smart heal. This change may reduce the number of Renew casts, but it is still worth casting if <3 targets need a PoH heal.
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90 Pandaren Monk
HC
9450
Eh, looking at these numbers, I'm still going to cast CoH as it has higher burst and is a smart heal. This change may reduce the number of Renew casts, but it is still worth casting if <3 targets need a PoH heal.


Because warlock pets need heals.

JKJK

Just a friendly jab :P
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12465
Kaels -

I agree with you 100%. Unfortunately, we're both on the *wrong* side of the proverbial fence, as it were.

The general priest population's game experience is directly reflected by their spell selection. Blizzard, at this juncture, isn't going to buff something that people aren't using, in the hopes that they will suddenly start using it. This point is already made clear by the...fact...that a lot of priests just don't seem to be adapting to what is their current reality as it is. What makes you think they would suddenly start if Blizzard buffed/changed something they aren't using?

Priests have leaned heavily on PoH for a long time, Disc especially. This is something that is only likely to change if they removed the spell from the game. Somebody has pointed to some spreadsheet someplace that says PoH is the way to go most of the time. This mentality is accurately reflected in priest logs, and almost certainly in Blizzard's internal metrics.

This is why PoH was chosen - despite the inner balances you correctly refer to, this is what people are already doing (despite their gear not being able to support it, yet they wonder why they have mana problems...). As I said before, this is a very easy fix, whose ramifications (now and later) are easy to extrapolate.

It is unfortunate that this change will indeed upset those balances, though. Sadface.

I wish they'd hire you for Priest class design and balance, Kaels - but I don't think you'd actually enjoy the job. :)

Riôt
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10625
10/10/2012 11:34 AMPosted by Advanced
Because warlock pets need heals.

Of course! So do dragonlings, treants, bloodworms, Wild Imps, Armies, and Stampedes!

Healz for Everybody!!*

* May not apply to player characters.
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90 Human Priest
16785
I herped derped because I had to get to lunch. I knew off the top of my head that prayer of healing does 189k-226k (226k in my wowhead profile) but that wasn't accounting for each individual person. I was just venting passions before thinking, so I'm not going to edit my original post. You will not spirit shell cap with 2 prayers of healing.

@Kaels It seems like a misleading number but it's probably revealing to the mathematically challenged.

I tried to cover against the "but circle of healing isn't pary restricted" posts before they came out in the above post. I'm not looking at healing per mana with that statement, I'm looking at hps. I have my spreadsheet open now and I'm looking at:
- prayer of healing does 71,496 hps
- circle of healing does 82,926 hps (unglyphed)

If a change to prayer of healing goes in, the hps of prayer of healing would be 89370 hps, thus pushing circle of healing off the table in the priority. You could make the case that if you glyph circle of healing it would do 99511 hps, but that pushes it's healing per mana down below prayer of heal before the intended change. After the 25% boost of prayer of healing, the glyphed circle of healing healing per mana would be substantially lower than prayer of healing healing per mana. So expect those elitist jerks-like sites to post up blanket info like "using glyphed circle is stupid" as long as mana remains hard to come by.

And I'm still concerned about where this leaves divine star. But all these points are opinions, so you're entitled to disagree with them. I'd simply rather have the developer attention on more than just prayer of healing.
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90 Pandaren Priest
TF
6360
The benefits of casting a Glyphed CoH doesn't just lie in its numbers though. The fact that its instant cast, raid wide and a smart heal means that it's exceedingly useful when you need that burst of healing on those who need it most. You're not going to find those benefits with PoH. Also, most logs I've seen has CoH with lower overhealing than PoH, so that certainly has to be factored in when it comes to numbers.

Although, I wish they would have gone in a different direction for buffing Disc. Disc will certainly see an increase in output, but it was more of the limitations of PoH and our lack of a proper spot raid heal that restricted Disc, and I wish they would have addressed that instead.
Edited by Ceddya on 10/10/2012 11:46 AM PDT
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90 Human Priest
16785
Okay, yes, Circle of Healing has a place as a spot heal and heal sniping, though someone has mentioned the radius range it has. So you could make the case that it "should" have lower overhealing.

What I was more concerned with is the aoe "healing checks" in these new encounters. And these checks are always, "everybody clump up, we're doing aoe now" which is an environment where the party restriction on Prayer of Healing is largely irrelevant and nothing is overhealing much. What a singlular change to Prayer of Healing means is:

-As holy, you are a bad priest if you can circle of healing during these clump up and heal situations.
-As disc, you are a bad priest if you stop rolling prayer of healing to cast power word: shield on somebody (for both rapture to or to ensure someone at low health doesn't die).

And neither of these above scenarios is balanced. If they are going to buff one spell, they are going to skew off our class balance. It would be more appropriate to just buff everything by a %. And the decision to nerf any of the disc shields will in the same vein break the disc class balance within its own spell toolkit.
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90 Pandaren Priest
TF
6360
-As holy, you are a bad priest if you can circle of healing during these clump up and heal situations.
-As disc, you are a bad priest if you stop rolling prayer of healing to cast power word: shield on somebody (for both rapture to or to ensure someone at low health doesn't die).


I just don't understand where this mentality comes from TBH. I just don't see this belief being perpetuated even after the buffs.

Fact is, both spells will still have a higher HPS than PoH after the buffs. There's no real and good reason to not cast them just because PoH has been buffed.
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90 Undead Priest
16470
<3 Although this won't solve Disc's inherent issues (imo), its a bandaid for sure :p


Just as an addition, we're still keeping an eye on performance in this regard. We'll see what happens after the hotfix and how healing is coming along. The extra healing may well alleviate a bit of the mana concern, but we'll wait and see.

As always, constructive feedback is appreciated and we'll continue watching.


Honestly I feel like constructive feedback isn't appreciated or even listened to. There were reports of priests being in a seriously bad place in Beta and they were blown off saying we were fine... But sure enough Live comes out and Priests are terrible with Disc being literally useful only for gimmicks.

While these hotfixes will buff both classes, with Disc being so far behind holy, they will still leave Disc behind.
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90 Human Priest
6820
Try Divine Star.


I like Divine Star most out of the three, and I tend to use it for healing. Thank you for the suggestion.

I just want Cascade to be useful for something other than rolling renew and to actually do *anything* for Disc. The idea of Cascade is great, but not so much the implementation. It should be an attractive choice rather than a button you fear pressing because of its cost, feel is restrictive because of its cooldown, and feel is ineffective because it heals for so little and is so easily sniped. Also, I'm uncomfortable with it being the "only valuable in 25 mans" spell, especially when it's still kinda pfft there, too.

Maybe it should get an automatic DA like PoH.


I actually use Divine Star as well. Shorter CD and less mana to use it TWICE during the time one cooldown is for Cascade. Now I haven't tested it yet against Cascade, but having it do damage when there are mobs around my tank etc...is a bonus for me. It's been a winner for sure.

I will take the PoH and PoM buff they are giving (and hope for better in the future); however I would LOVE for them to give Heal and Greater Heal cast times around 1.5 seconds. PLEASE. At least Heal. For goodness sakes..........cut a priest a break!
Edited by Jaenna on 10/10/2012 12:15 PM PDT
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90 Undead Priest
16470
10/10/2012 08:56 AMPosted by Dishcashflow
So the hotfix nerf to healing and shields (15% each) weakens disc priests harder than any other healing class, since we specialize in shields.


when did this happen? Or is this a PvP thing?
Edited by Poena on 10/10/2012 12:24 PM PDT
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90 Human Priest
16785
-As holy, you are a bad priest if you can circle of healing during these clump up and heal situations.
-As disc, you are a bad priest if you stop rolling prayer of healing to cast power word: shield on somebody (for both rapture to or to ensure someone at low health doesn't die).


I just don't understand where this mentality comes from TBH. I just don't see this belief being perpetuated even after the buffs.

Fact is, both spells will still have a higher HPS than PoH after the buffs. There's no real and good reason to not cast them just because PoH has been buffed.

Current numbers:
- disc PoH hps: 80,427
- disc PW:S hps: 68,542
- disc PoH hps w/borrowed time: 92,678 hps

- holy PoH hps: 71,496 (no chakra stance)
- holy CoH hps: 82,926 (no chakra stance)

After the proposed changes:
- disc PoH hps: 100534 hps
- disc PW:S hps: 58261 hps
- disc PoH hps w/borrowed time: 115848 hps

- holy PoH hps: 89370 hps (no chakra stance)
- holy CoH hps: 82,926 (no chakra stance)
Edited by Twistedmind on 10/10/2012 1:07 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
10/10/2012 12:16 PMPosted by Poena
So the hotfix nerf to healing and shields (15% each) weakens disc priests harder than any other healing class, since we specialize in shields.


when did this happen? Or is this a PvP thing?


This is a PvP thing.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
Current numbers:
- disc PoH hps: 80,427
- disc PW:S hps: 68,542
- disc PoH hps w/borrowed time: 92,678 hps

- holy PoH hps: 71,496 (no chakra stance)
- holy CoH hps: 82,926 (no chakra stance)

After the proposed changes:
- disc PoH hps: 100534 hps
- disc PW:S hps: 58261 hps
- disc PoH hps w/borrowed time: 115848 hps

- holy PoH hps: 89370 hps (no chakra stance)
- holy CoH hps: 82,926 (no chakra stance)


Is this factoring in mana limitations?
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90 Night Elf Priest
16240
[quote]

Your point about healing gear, while a joke, lends itself to something to consider in regard to where people are in gearing up. A lot of things get "tuned" for higher level item gear, or at least with the understanding that that gear will change things a bit for how people experience their state of play. That said though, it doesn't preclude people from sharing their experiences of what they like/don't like what's fun/what isn't fun etc. Numbers tell us how something is performing analytically, but numbers don't always convey whether something is fun or not.

People at this point are still getting new gear, refining their stat choices, filling in their "best" rotations, adding in their enchants, gems etc so, experiences may differ a bit based on those things.


WTF Neth seriously ...

There is ONE!!! count it After 0 before 2 - O N E Cloth Spirit Helm in heroics but thats ok we'll just get that Spirit Cloth Chest piece from Heroic ummmmm ... no wait .... it was ... OH YEAH THERE IS NONE IN HEROICS.
No wait my mistake - a slight chance of a random enchanted cloth chest piece from Scenario loot cache.

Cloth is heavily focused on DPS classes - but your ONLY cloth Healers of which there are 2 specs is left lacking and wanting - while Shamans have Mail Chest Spirit gear dropping 1 in Normal and Heroic Stormstout Brewery plus an additional one in Scholomance.

Don't ask Priests to gear up when the Developers are screwing us over as a class - what idiot makes a change like "Spirit is now a healer stat" and then just "forgets" to put in spirit cloth gear?

I'd hold my breath for a response from you but like all priest complaints your eyes will glaze over this post.
Edited by Ihearvoices on 10/10/2012 12:51 PM PDT
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90 Undead Priest
20805


-As holy, you are a bad priest if you can circle of healing during these clump up and heal situations.
-As disc, you are a bad priest if you stop rolling prayer of healing to cast power word: shield on somebody (for both rapture to or to ensure someone at low health doesn't die).


My question would be this: Would this then be a reflection of PoH being overpowered after the hotfix in relation to its healing and mana cost (in comparison to the healing power and mana constraints of the group healing spells of the other classes we are in competition with), or is this a reflection of Circle of Healing and Power Word: Shield being underpowered in relation to their healing / shielding power and mana cost?
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90 Human Priest
16785
Yes, I should have included the quote to the person I was responding too. This thread is so popular, it might be a confusing read. Editing that now.



-As holy, you are a bad priest if you can circle of healing during these clump up and heal situations.
-As disc, you are a bad priest if you stop rolling prayer of healing to cast power word: shield on somebody (for both rapture to or to ensure someone at low health doesn't die).


My question would be this: Would this then be a reflection of PoH being overpowered after the hotfix in relation to its healing and mana cost (in comparison to the healing power and mana constraints of the group healing spells of the other classes we are in competition with), or is this a reflection of Circle of Healing and Power Word: Shield being underpowered in relation to their healing / shielding power and mana cost?

My numbers are looking at hps, not hpm of stacked up aoe rotations (because as I stated earlier, these are the aoe healing checks in the encounters). It's both that PoH would be overpowered and circle and pw:s would be underpowered.
Edited by Twistedmind on 10/10/2012 1:14 PM PDT
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