Ret is Awesome and So Is Their Damage

90 Undead Mage
7765
It's a shame the WoW forums have come to the point they have. I used to find actual worthwhile information on here.

Anyone QQing about ret is an absolute idiot, or is just straight up not a good player. That's not meant in any type of 'holier than thou' way either. Right now a Ret's mobility is AWESOME, it has awesomely tuned damage, and it has great self heals. The argument "OH IT DUZNT MATTER BCUZ DUDE FERALZ N MAGEZ N LOCKS N WARRZ N ELEZ PWN OUR DAMAGE WTF" is invalid for many reasons:

a) The class you listed doesn't have better damage than a Ret, but a simpler priority rotation and thus it is not as uncommon to see that class putting up big numbers in PvP, compared to, say, a class with a more complex throughput mechanic that is harder to master.

b) The class is imba. If you list an OP class as proof to the UP-ness (lol p-ness) of another, you're doing it wrong. That doesn't mean the latter is underpowered, rather, it means that the former isn't working as intended or needs to be rebalanced.

c) Pay attention folks because this is the big one. And its hard to understand for a lot of you whippersnappers. Lets see if you can follow this convoluted and intricate line of reasoning: The class with higher damage is SUPPOSED to have a higher damage output than a RET PALADIN. Phew, that's a difficult concept to understand. It's practically astrophysics. But maybe, just MAYBE, some classes are meant to deal more damage than others? You know, since, maybe one of them is a pure DPS class and the other (Pallies) are !@#$ING HYBRIDS. Jesus.

Though I will say this: some classes are highly imba right now. And that sucks. But its the beginning of an expansion so what did you expect? Oh yeah, you expected that YOUR class would be OP so you wouldn't have to l2p. Because you are a lazy mouth-breather. But NO, it could never, EVER be the player's fault. It's gotta be the class. Yeah, that's it, it's the class that's bad.

In all honesty, if you are good at the game and class you play, it doesn't matter what spec or class you are. Other than Monks. Man, do they suck.

inb4 "says the Mage"
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90 Human Paladin
15265
I like you
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90 Human Paladin
16000
It's so fun watching those scrub unskilled Mages get leveled by me now... No more free novas and no more free instant damage. I'm loving it too much. I agree with the OP. :P
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90 Human Paladin
4080
Shakespeare once said that "brevity is the soul of wit". Apparently, you don't know Shakespeare. Do ya think you could have summed up your little rant in a more efficient manner?
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90 Draenei Paladin
6075
Pfft, says the mage!

But, on a more serious note...

10/05/2012 02:19 PMPosted by Thallian
a) The class you listed doesn't have better damage than a Ret, but a simpler priority rotation and thus it is not as uncommon to see that class putting up big numbers in PvP, compared to, say, a class with a more complex throughput mechanic that is harder to master.


I remember saying in a thread last night how, while Ret might not deal more damage, they're balanced around their unusually high crit chance (for strength DPS) and their ability to put out more hits in a smaller amount of time through haste and mechanics like SoB.

Ret just puts out more attacks in a shorter amount of time then a class that sees those 100k crits. People just perceives our damage as underpowered because they see their TV dealing much less damage then, say, a Warlock's chaos bolt even though they're using TV so much more often then a Warlock uses chaos bolt.
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90 Human Paladin
9015
The only problem I have with Ret is that we seem to rely way too heavily on our burst cooldowns, and we are 20-40% lower than 'pure' damage classes. 20-40% lower is way too much. 5-10%, aka what it's supposed to be, is acceptable, given how powerful my offheals and defensive utility are.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
19235
10/05/2012 02:19 PMPosted by Thallian
But maybe, just MAYBE, some classes are meant to deal more damage than others? You know, since, maybe one of them is a pure DPS class and the other (Pallies) are !@#$ING HYBRIDS. Jesus.


Hybrid tax is gone, the game isn't balanced with that in mind, and hasn't been for a very long time.
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90 Draenei Paladin
14320
I'm shocked, SHOCKED, that a Mage is saying this, particularly one that has NOT PLAYED A 90 RET. Fail harder Thallian and try it first before you spout this BS nobody but you believes.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
5935
Cayse beat me to it. The concept of the hybrid tax was wrong and should not be in the game anymore. Combine that with the numerous healing capabilities the so-called "pure dps" classes have, and you can see how the "damage class should damage" argument is invalid.

However OP did hit on a key point and that is that Ret is more dependent on timing (and, dare I say, skill) than many other classes. Not to say it is hard to play, but you gain more improvement the better you are. Combining this with Ret's bursty nature gets you a TON of QQ when a very good player absolutely destroys someone by blowing CDs (while the player being blown up doesn't go defensive). But that burst:

1) Only happens once in a while
2) Requires timing and in some cases setup

I especially try not to listen to people who say they were floored by a ret in a battleground. Usually I assume that Ret got a full inq running, got 5hp and then blew all CDs and unloaded on the other player. "HE ONE SHOT ME". No... he spent a minute setting up and then unloaded on you while you sat there planning how you'd post on the pally forums about it.
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90 Draenei Paladin
9900
Statistically many specs and classes DO have higher damage than us. It's all in the math, and math cannot lie. People aren't entirely wrong when they complain about particular classes being unreasonably high up on the meters compared to others (Affliction Locks, Frost Mages, etc.)

Also, hybrid tax is a lie. It should never have been a part of this game and hopefully it never will be again.

As far as mobility goes...well, everything we have in the realm of movement is dispelable with the exception of Emancipation and PoJ. You also have to consider that, against many classes, we'll spend 60% or more of our time spamming Emancipate as opposed to actually damaging them.

We aren't in a terrible place right now, but we aren't in the best of places either.
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90 Draenei Paladin
6075
10/05/2012 03:24 PMPosted by Svayne
Also, hybrid tax is a lie. It should never have been a part of this game and hopefully it never will be again.


Pretty much. Hybrid Tax is an awful way to balance Hybrid DPS when you take into account WoW's min-maxing nature.
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90 Draenei Paladin
9900
10/05/2012 03:38 PMPosted by Raidspec
And it doesn't matter what class you play, you'll be good? Ok. Seriously, do you even use your brain? lol

I agree with this bit to some extent, actually. It's not impossible for a Ret to push Gladiator (don't go looking at my armory, I've never have been and probably never will be able to push titles). It's not impossible for anything to push high ratings with the right comp and the right player behind the keyboard.

That's just my opinion though.
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90 Draenei Paladin
9900
10/05/2012 03:48 PMPosted by Raidspec
Don't you think something is wrong when the best players themselves say "Ya, my class is too OP."

Sure, I suppose.
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As far as mobility goes...well, everything we have in the realm of movement is dispelable with the exception of Emancipation and PoJ. You also have to consider that, against many classes, we'll spend 60% or more of our time spamming Emancipate as opposed to actually damaging them.
Another effect of this is that our mobility is of the 'Ret is hard to stop moving at 100% speed', rather than of the 'Ret moves like lightning' variety, so it's different from a warrior who if rooted has to sit there (most of the time), but who can instantly get right on you when not rooted. This means that people who let Rets get on them complain about who impossible they are to stop, but people who start kiting early or who mage excellent gap openers tend to have much less of the problem (nothing quite like having a hunter kite you to death from 35 yards away and take no damage whatsoever, especially when they keep their pet away from you too).
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90 Tauren Paladin
6810
I see no issue with ret, especially when im out dpsing geared people in heroics (not even hit capped and exp capped for PvE)

People just can't seem to grasp the basic nature of ret.. if its that hard go download

CLCRet, Makes live so much easier >_<
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90 Human Paladin
5675
Omg don't even go there with the pure dps vs hybrid argument horse sh!t. 2nd wind. Nuff said
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