Second Wind

90 Night Elf Druid
6055
A warrior shouldn't be able to get as much healing as a resto druid in arena.

Needs a nerf.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
Warriors were in a god aweful place last expac. I don't think this is over the top.
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100 Tauren Shaman
HC
17885
Second wind isn't the problem with warriors OP as much as their burst potential and control. It's healing may seem strong when with a healer, but there is no way they're healing more than a healer.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7545
/agree with OP.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
15125
If you get a warrior below 35% health, and then leave him there for long enough to outheal a resto druid, you're using some horribly ineffective tactics.
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90 Human Paladin
6135
Second wind is not op... if u cant even burst down 35% u must be doing something wrong.
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90 Human Priest
2325
The problem is, when it comes to 1v1 with a healer. They simply cannot deal that 35k. And with all the warriors armour, our 10-20k damage will do around 3-5k damage. We are doing nothing wrong, I agree with OP 100%.

I wouldn't mind if it was below 20% health, but 35%???
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
The problem is, when it comes to 1v1 with a healer. They simply cannot deal that 35k. And with all the warriors armour, our 10-20k damage will do around 3-5k damage. We are doing nothing wrong, I agree with OP 100%.

I wouldn't mind if it was below 20% health, but 35%???


A healer shouldn't be able to kill a DPS class by themselves.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
15125
You're trying to kill someone. Solo. As a healer.

Under what circumstances did you imagine that was going to work well?
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100 Night Elf Druid
16235
10/30/2012 04:13 PMPosted by Tiriél
A healer shouldn't be able to kill a DPS class by themselves.


And why not?
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100 Blood Elf Priest
15125
10/30/2012 04:28 PMPosted by Shirahime
A healer shouldn't be able to kill a DPS class by themselves.


And why not?


Well, as a healer, your primary job in PvP is to keep someone up through the damage a dps player can put out on them. We'll take it as a given that you want this.

If you then go on to ask to be able to put out more damage than they can handle, you're asking to be better than them.

I'd probably enjoy that as a healer, but not because it's anything like balanced.
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100 Night Elf Druid
16235
10/30/2012 04:35 PMPosted by Nerfheals


And why not?


Well, as a healer, your primary job in PvP is to keep someone up through the damage a dps player can put out on them. We'll take it as a given that you want this.

If you then go on to ask to be able to put out more damage than they can handle, you're asking to be better than them.

I'd probably enjoy that as a healer, but not because it's anything like balanced.


By that logic, you are suggesting that, by default, one class and spec ought to be able to defeat another, irrespective of the players ability to play said class, but that the class and spec is simply not allowed to beat the other. That a resto druid ought to just lay down and wait for the end when pitted against an arms warrior, because resto ought not to be able to push the required DPS to overcome second wind.
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100 Night Elf Druid
16235
10/30/2012 04:35 PMPosted by Nerfheals
If you then go on to ask to be able to put out more damage than they can handle, you're asking to be better than them.


Also, here you seem to miss that, you have no problem that the warrior is able to put out enough DPS to overcome the healers healing, but that the healer is not able to put out enough DPS to overcome the DPS's healing, and yet, you cannot see how this is not balance?
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85 Night Elf Druid
0
I don't think Nerfheals said anything about DPS classes being able to out DPS a healing class' HPS in a 1v1, just that a healer shouldn't be able to kill a DPS 1v1. There's a difference between not being able to kill someone and consistently dying to them.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
10/30/2012 04:43 PMPosted by Shirahime
By that logic, you are suggesting that, by default, one class and spec ought to be able to defeat another, irrespective of the players ability to play said class, but that the class and spec is simply not allowed to beat the other. That a resto druid ought to just lay down and wait for the end when pitted against an arms warrior, because resto ought not to be able to push the required DPS to overcome second wind.


Nope, that's not what he is saying at all. Healers, by the same token, shouldn't be able to be killed by a single DPS.

But a healing specced character should -never- be able to single-handedly kill a DPS*. That would be very unabalanced.

*Caveat: Unless the DPS is a drooling idiot. Which happens sometimes, but I digress.
Edited by Tiriél on 10/30/2012 4:53 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
16220
And with all the warriors armour, our 10-20k damage will do around 3-5k damage.



Wait... what? When did plate armor reduce magic damage taken from a priest? Did I miss something?
Oh wait, you must be trolling me
Edited by Drqt on 10/30/2012 5:28 PM PDT
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90 Undead Priest
4680
I just hate that it's passive.
Too many passive abilities in this game makes it too easy.
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90 Gnome Monk
7430
10/06/2012 10:29 PMPosted by Nerfheals
If you get a warrior below 35% health, and then leave him there for long enough to outheal a resto druid, you're using some horribly ineffective tactics.


Pretty much this. If you burn a warrior down to below 35% and keep him hovering in the 20-35% range letting second wind heal him the problem isn't second wind being too powerful.

Granted I don't pvp much in wow (due primarily to the utter lack of anything resembling balanced play...ever) but even I know you save your burst abilities to finish opponents off, not to get rid of the first half of their health bar.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9515
Well...the thing is, it is possible for most DPS to kill a slightly lower-skill healer. Eventually. With effective use of CDs and CC chains.

It should thus also be possible for a healer to kill a slightly lower-skill DPS. Eventually. With effective use of CDs and CC. And in most cases, it is.

If you match a healer and a DPS of equal skill, it should absolutely be a draw, just like if you match 2 DPS of equal skill the odds should theoretically be 50:50. But if there's a skill differential, that should be able to tip the balance.

The issue with SW isn't the healing it does, but the fact that it's completely 100% passive, giving a healer absolutely no way to counter it. If the warrior's health pool and resilience are high enough that he outheals your damage, you're not killing him, and that's that.
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