Arms Warriors: Are you using Slam?

Both PvP and PvE

I find that with CS, MS, and OP I never have (or very rarely) a GCD to use on Slam so I end up spaming Heroic Strike instead as my rage dump. Anyone else find the same thing? I am about to just take Slam off my bars.
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90 Troll Warrior
18395
You should definitely be using slam.

+Slam hits for about 30k for me.
+Heroic strike hits for about 20k.
+They cost the same rage.

Damage for rage spent is higher for slam, however heroic strike is your main global cooldown while slam is part of that main global cooldown.

To be doing your best damage out you would need to make sure you never have a main global cooldown not being spent on either motral strike / execute / overpower / slam -------- while making sure you do not cap rage with using heroic strike when you have high amounts.

The only exception to this is when you get taste for blood procs; as one proc increases the damage of heroic strike by 100% (per stack) meaning its now doing 40k (1x stack) damage for that 30 rage spent compared to slams 30k damage for 30 rage spent.

Sianl
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Right but what I am saying is I don't get a free GCD to use Slam, I would have to ignore a OP or CS proc or MS CD to hit Slam to dump rage when I can use Heroic Strike to dump it off GCD, I particularly have a big issue when Avatar is up I NEVER get a single slam off.
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90 Troll Warrior
18395
You should be seeing those globals though. CD on MS is 6 giving you 4 globals per MS. TfB is only a 30% chance proc so more often then not you should have a spare global per MS rotation.

Maybe you are just insanely lucky I guess.

Sianl
Edited by Sianl on 10/8/2012 1:03 AM PDT
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90 Orc Warrior
15705
In pvp I could understand not using it (need to hit HS to keep slow up, + lower uptime on target), but there's no reason to not use it in PVE. I find it hard to believe you don't have a single open GCD without using slam.
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90 Troll Warrior
18395
You should be using it in PvP as well? Its still down to the previously mentioned crap. Its more damage to use it when the priority happens and there will be moments where you aren't getting RNG lucky with TfB.

Sianl
Edited by Sianl on 10/8/2012 1:11 AM PDT
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90 Human Warrior
10155
You should use Slam when both your MS and CS are on CD, and you do not have any stacks of TFB, which is quite seldom the case.
Edited by Jypstick on 10/8/2012 1:14 AM PDT
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55 Human Death Knight
0
HS > slam in most pvp situation tbh (chasing healers/casters)with hindering strike glyph unless you are facing melee
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90 Tauren Warrior
0
10/08/2012 01:33 AMPosted by Hinty
HS > slam in most pvp situation tbh (chasing healers/casters)with hindering strike glyph unless you are facing melee


Dont listen to this Swifty watching fool.
Sianl is correct, you should be using slam. The only time you should even consider hitting that heroic strike (I know being off the GCD is awfully tempting), is when you get TfB procs from Over Power (which doesnt happen often anyhow).

A lot of warriors believe that if you use your powerful main abilities for the traditional GCD, and then use an ability thats OFF the gcd while waiting for your main GCD to come up, they'll do more damage. Makes logical sense, because you're always doing something. However in the long run, choosing to Slam over Heroic strike while your MS & CS are on cooldown and you have no overpower procs is the far better option.

And yes, you should know when TfB procs, so open up your tunnel vision and make sure you know when it does.

TL,DR: Slam > Heroic Strike. Use heroic strike as the "steam valve" to control (not dump) rage.

10/08/2012 12:45 AMPosted by Sianl
while making sure you do not cap rage with using heroic strike when you have high amounts
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90 Undead Warrior
11850
Slam vs HS was only a question before people realized their PVP spec with drums of war and full sudden death wasn't as efficient as taking imp slam.

There is no Slam VS HS argument any longer. You WILL be using slam and you WILL be using heroic strike. Because you aren't using a rotation on your enemy, you are setting up a big burst window.

CS->HS is big damage. There isn't a question about using slam if you have TfB stacks and CS is up. You WILL be using CS->HS to dump that damage on your opponent. You WILL be following up with mortal strike, and you WILL be hitting overpower after that mortal strike to try and proc TfB again.

There isn't a question about the plan, that is how you get more damage. There isn't another way.
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90 Goblin Warrior
9430
I basically only use HS on tfb procs in arms and when I desperately need to rage dump in fury because of a surplus of rage.

Otherwise, I use slam or wild strike.
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90 Orc Warrior
5200
Fury is different then arms when it comes to hs usage. Arms wants to save hs for huge tfb, while fury will use it to simply bleed off rage/apply slows.

For bursting like it was said above, Cs> Hs for arms followed by ms, op, to get more stacks. Fury bursting consists of cs> 3xRb(using Berserker Rage for the 3rd Rb) and weave hs in the cs window.
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For PVP always use Slam unless you have 2 or more Taste for Blood procs or your sitting at 80+ Rage with nothing else to hit, then Heroic Strike.
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90 Undead Warrior
11850
Sure, if you want to waste damage.
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90 Troll Warrior
18395
Slam vs HS was only a question before people realized their PVP spec with drums of war and full sudden death wasn't as efficient as taking imp slam.

There is no Slam VS HS argument any longer. You WILL be using slam and you WILL be using heroic strike. Because you aren't using a rotation on your enemy, you are setting up a big burst window.

CS->HS is big damage. There isn't a question about using slam if you have TfB stacks and CS is up. You WILL be using CS->HS to dump that damage on your opponent. You WILL be following up with mortal strike, and you WILL be hitting overpower after that mortal strike to try and proc TfB again.

There isn't a question about the plan, that is how you get more damage. There isn't another way.


4 globals per Mortal Strike usage. Lets say you have a capped rage bar, 100. Rage isn't the issue. What will you do?

CS - peel his armor off to make the next 4 yellows hurt. -{You are still at 100 rage}
MS - This would be the common thought; although there is an exception. -{100 rage}
OP - This is your 2nd of 4 globals durring CS's uptime. -{100 rage}
OP? - You got lucky enough to get a TfB proc you'll throw another here. -{100 rage}
OP?? - You got lucky again, throw another OP! -{100 rage}

<<CS fades>>

Situation 2:
CS: -{100 rage}
MS: -{100 rage}
OP: -{100 rage}
OP? - You got lucky and got a TfB proc, throw an Op! -{100 rage}
??? - You did not get a TfB proc -- wtf do you do now?! Why slam of course! -{70 rage}

Situation 3:
CS: -{100 rage}
MS: -{100 rage}
OP: -{100 rage}
OP?: You did not get a TfB proc - slam instead! -{70 rage}
???: Since you didn't OP last GCD you definetly do not have a TfB proc, slam instead! -{40 rage}

Those are your 3 on GCD scenarios you can get with CS up; which of course is your burst portion. As stated before slam hits harder then a non-TfB stacked HS so you need to be having enough rage to slam just in case you do not get lucky with TfB. If you do get lucky then you should heroic strike.

Its the best way for you to do damage - why gimp yourself because there is a chance you wont have to use slam?

Sianl
Edited by Sianl on 10/8/2012 1:05 PM PDT
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55 Human Death Knight
0
10/08/2012 10:31 AMPosted by Mooskitt
HS > slam in most pvp situation tbh (chasing healers/casters)with hindering strike glyph unless you are facing melee


Dont listen to this Swifty watching fool.
Sianl is correct, you should be using slam. The only time you should even consider hitting that heroic strike (I know being off the GCD is awfully tempting), is when you get TfB procs from Over Power (which doesnt happen often anyhow).

A lot of warriors believe that if you use your powerful main abilities for the traditional GCD, and then use an ability thats OFF the gcd while waiting for your main GCD to come up, they'll do more damage. Makes logical sense, because you're always doing something. However in the long run, choosing to Slam over Heroic strike while your MS & CS are on cooldown and you have no overpower procs is the far better option.

And yes, you should know when TfB procs, so open up your tunnel vision and make sure you know when it does.

TL,DR: Slam > Heroic Strike. Use heroic strike as the "steam valve" to control (not dump) rage.

while making sure you do not cap rage with using heroic strike when you have high amounts


did you even read at all? unless you like to apply hamstring/howl every few sec or have a snare bot try fighting any non brain dead range beside priest/lock, HS auto snare is godsend and u keep your slam on melee if thats your kill target . I never said to spam HS, do that when tfb get stacks up or the snare is about to expire on range.

more damage in long run doesn't make jack in pvp considering bursting down kill target during cc chain is what wining the match
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90 Undead Warrior
3785
The only times you should use HS are:

1: when taste for blood procs
2: when you have tons of rage

Other than that your rotation should be CS > MS > OP > Slam. If you have tons of rage you slip in HS between the other attacks in the rotation. Its main value is in the fact that it's off the GCD.
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90 Gnome Warrior
14940
So do you prefer to take 10% less healing, have 50% less heroic leaps, or lose a 30 second ranged silence for this godsend?
Edited by Quinten on 10/8/2012 6:51 PM PDT
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90 Human Warrior
14640
Free GCD? Got the rage for it? Stacking up or saving my TfB for my next CS?

USE SLAM.
Edited by Greìl on 10/8/2012 6:59 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Hunter
3030
Slam vs HS was only a question before people realized their PVP spec with drums of war and full sudden death wasn't as efficient as taking imp slam.

There is no Slam VS HS argument any longer. You WILL be using slam and you WILL be using heroic strike. Because you aren't using a rotation on your enemy, you are setting up a big burst window.

CS->HS is big damage. There isn't a question about using slam if you have TfB stacks and CS is up. You WILL be using CS->HS to dump that damage on your opponent. You WILL be following up with mortal strike, and you WILL be hitting overpower after that mortal strike to try and proc TfB again.

There isn't a question about the plan, that is how you get more damage. There isn't another way.


4 globals per Mortal Strike usage. Lets say you have a capped rage bar, 100. Rage isn't the issue. What will you do?

CS - peel his armor off to make the next 4 yellows hurt. -{You are still at 100 rage}
MS - This would be the common thought; although there is an exception. -{100 rage}
OP - This is your 2nd of 4 globals durring CS's uptime. -{100 rage}
OP? - You got lucky enough to get a TfB proc you'll throw another here. -{100 rage}
OP?? - You got lucky again, throw another OP! -{100 rage}

<<CS fades>>

Situation 2:
CS: -{100 rage}
MS: -{100 rage}
OP: -{100 rage}
OP? - You got lucky and got a TfB proc, throw an Op! -{100 rage}
??? - You did not get a TfB proc -- wtf do you do now?! Why slam of course! -{70 rage}

Situation 3:
CS: -{100 rage}
MS: -{100 rage}
OP: -{100 rage}
OP?: You did not get a TfB proc - slam instead! -{70 rage}
???: Since you didn't OP last GCD you definetly do not have a TfB proc, slam instead! -{40 rage}

Those are your 3 on GCD scenarios you can get with CS up; which of course is your burst portion. As stated before slam hits harder then a non-TfB stacked HS so you need to be having enough rage to slam just in case you do not get lucky with TfB. If you do get lucky then you should heroic strike.

Its the best way for you to do damage - why gimp yourself because there is a chance you wont have to use slam?

Sianl


That doesnt make sense to me. If you are capped on rage wouldn't you..

CS (100 rage)
Slam (to bleed off a little rage as to not waste it)
MS
OP
IF TFB procs OP if no slam?

I get that OP can proc TFB but i'd rather setup a CS around a 2+ stack of TFB (fishing for more) then use CS praying for one and doing less damage.. In most typical situtations you will end your 4th GCD with slam. In the off chance you proc a 2nd TFB you OP again and if nothing MS OP. We are getting the same amount of slams off but im coming out of CS with more rage.

-Senario 1 CS doesnt matter for your TFB because you will be outside its CD when you use it. So you end up with less rage and stacks that dont ignore armor anways.

-Senario 2 honestly sounds like more dps then senario 1 due to it falling in like with the very end of CS (would require math to figure out exactly).

-Senario 3 is just less rage in the long run.
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