Oh how I feel for the rogue!

90 Human Warrior
6420
You all have it rough! I recently leveled my rogue to 90 and it was a very painful process. I have never EVER died so much on my rogue in simple questing formats. I am now leveling my hunter and have yet to go below 95% hp pulling packs and packs of mobs. My warrior took a bit of damage as fury/arms while questing but if I knew I was gonna be pulling a ton of mobs I just switched to prot and could tank a zone of mobs without fear of dying.

I haven't even attempted to PvP on my rogue knowing if I'm out of stealth for more than 10 seconds I'm gonna get globaled.

You all have my sympathy,

Xisle
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90 Night Elf Rogue
10400
I died a lot during levels 88-89, but mostly because I was being stupid, and because the mobs I was fighting finally caught up with my all-around gear level.

Most of the complaining I've seen about rogues leveling in Mists revolves around folks assuming that questing = god mode.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
7360
I didn't have any real trouble questing after I dropped Assassination for Combat and glyphed for Deadly Momentum. Combat Readiness is a godsend for soloing as well.

I don't think it's honestly possible to quest as a Rogue without Leeching Poison, though, and you'll definitely have to sit and eat often without keeping Recup up all the time.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
10400
Leeching proved pretty valuable for me, too. I also found myself pretty often using the heal-over-time item that has a chance to drop from herbalism nodes. But, again, this was mostly when I got impatient or careless and tried pulling more than a rogue should reasonably be able to pull.

We're not tanks. We're not healers. We are primarily single-target-damage-dealers. I just don't think it's reasonable to expect that we should be able to pull three quest mobs at the same time and survive the experience without utilizing our CC and popping cooldowns.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
7360
I had a very hard time NOT pulling more than one mob.
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90 Undead Rogue
5700
You know it's bad when a WARRIOR feels bad for you, lol.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
10400
And we have two heal-over-time abilities that combine to make a massive survivability difference for us when we're questing. As long as we're smart about how we choose our battles, it's really not going to be an issue.

I'll be honest: All this class comparison is starting to get to me. Rogues are rogues. They are not meant to be like monks. They are not meant to be like warriors. They are meant to be like rogues. Comparing the tools in the toolkit just doesn't make sense, because the classes were designed to be different.

If there is something fundamentally wrong with rogue design that causes us to die a lot while leveling, that's one thing. Maybe I've missed something important in my own consideration of how my leveling process went. But the answer is not to say, "look how much easier it is for a monk to self-heal!"

Monks are not a part of this conversation. I know a lot of us want them to be, but they're not. This is about what rogues are built to do, and whether they achieve that goal successfully given the tools at their disposal. In my opinion, when it comes to leveling, they do. If you disagree, disagree on the basis of *rogues*, not on the basis of what some other class is able to do that rogues are not.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
7360
Right now they're not a whole lot like rogues, either. :P
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90 Human Rogue
8040
Leveling my rogue was harder than its been since.... BC. What I will say is bien able to stealth past unimportant mobs is spimplfys things alot
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90 Night Elf Rogue
10400
10/11/2012 08:51 AMPosted by Aliira
Right now they're not a whole lot like rogues, either. :P

I'm gonna respond with actual seriousness to your wittyness (most becoming a rogue, btw), because I think it's a valuable topic to touch on. For me, the rogue is defined by its use of stealth. It's a critical component of what we do in every scenario except for raid boss fights.

When I'm leveling, stealth is *the* most important component of my approach. I use stealth, Sap and Blind liberally to ensure that I don't *need* to fight multiple mobs at once. I focus one down, I murder it brutally, and then I turn to the next one. It's systematic, and it's efficient.

If I get in trouble, I use Evasion, I use Disarm, I pop a health potion, I use Sprint and run away, I hit Vanish if I need to. This is the rogue experience. This is what no other class can do to the extent a rogue can. And it's why I love playing my class.

I never feel more like a rogue than when I'm questing.
Edited by Rfeann on 10/11/2012 8:59 AM PDT
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90 Undead Warrior
9665
You all have it rough! I recently leveled my rogue to 90 and it was a very painful process. I have never EVER died so much on my rogue in simple questing formats. I am now leveling my hunter and have yet to go below 95% hp pulling packs and packs of mobs. My warrior took a bit of damage as fury/arms while questing but if I knew I was gonna be pulling a ton of mobs I just switched to prot and could tank a zone of mobs without fear of dying.

I haven't even attempted to PvP on my rogue knowing if I'm out of stealth for more than 10 seconds I'm gonna get globaled.

You all have my sympathy,

Xisle

It's not that bad. Neither PvE nor PvP is that bad...

Survivability can be somewhat of an issue but we can still live. I also feel like our damage is fine too.

If I had it my way I would either:

a) Make Shadow Step baseline and give us a new talent (so Prep is an option)

or

b) Reduce the cooldown on Vanish to 2 minutes
Edited by Phrak on 10/11/2012 9:02 AM PDT
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90 Human Warrior
6420
10/11/2012 09:00 AMPosted by Phrak
It's not that bad. Neither PvE nor PvP is that bad...


Saying, "It's not that bad." is equivalent to saying, "It's not that good." So while every other class is good the rogue class is neutral. Sounds like a balance issue to me.

10/11/2012 09:00 AMPosted by Phrak
Survivability can be somewhat of an issue but we can still live. I also feel like our damage is fine too.


If survivability can be an issue, it is an issue. There is no inbetween. Completely agree with Shadow Step being a baseline ability and Vanish on a 2 minute CD.

Damage? I don't see any rogues in the top five damage done in any bg's ever. I'd say they need a bump or maybe they are blowing it up but they have to blow all their CD's and then have to wait 3 minutes to do it again. That sounds really gimped to me.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
10400
Saying, "It's not that bad." is equivalent to saying, "It's not that good." So while every other class is good the rogue class is neutral. Sounds like a balance issue to me.

Since when is "balance" an issue when you're leveling by yourself? I thought this was a thread about leveling?
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90 Human Rogue
9230
Even taking the classic approach of stealth, sap one target, blind another, and kill the 3rd, in most cases it takes Rogues so long to kill their target without cooldowns that if you happen to be on a high-pop server, your sap and blind targets have likely already been tagged by someone else. After that, you have a 3 min cd on blind, and if you happen to be stuck in combat and want to move on with your day, you have to blow vanish. Rogue is the absolute most inefficient questing class in the entire game. There is really no argument for this.

Every other class in the game IS god-mode while questing or leveling, pulling packs of mobs with reckless abandon and blowing them up with AoE. Recuperate is horrible for the amount of damage the Rogue has to sacrifice in order to use it. LP is overrated, even the Shiv effect won't save your life when you're in a bind. Combat is the only viable spec for pulling more than one or two mobs at a time, and is still heavily dependent on cooldowns to do any serious damage.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
6790
You know it's bad when a WARRIOR feels bad for you, lol
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
14745
I had hardly any trouble at all. O.o I couldn't BUZZSAW my way through mobs like I saw plenty of other folk doing, but unless it was a kill x quest, I still finished just as fast.

Only time I died a lot was being 86 and sneaking through Dread Wastes in hunt of herbs that were not Green Tea Leaf. >>;

To me, the key was stealth. Unless it involved killing lots of critters as the goal, I spent my time slinking through an area, trying to minimize my time in combat.

I haven't leveled my alts because... Well... They DON'T have stealth and are gonna get mobbed. O.o And all I can think of is what a pain in the rear that might wind up being...
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