Resto and Riptide Glyph

90 Pandaren Shaman
11235
I haven't seen a lot of serious discussion on whether or not this glyph is worth it or not so I thought I'd bring it up and see if we could get a talk going. Personally, I believe that the glyph should be used for a few reasons. One of the bigger problems shaman have is when the group spreads out and we have trouble keeping up heals. With riptide off cooldown, we are able to put an instant moderate heal on everyone anywhere. The other bonus that I see is, full tidal wave uptime. This helps speed up our healing waves being a plus when targets are spread, with a rotation of riptide, hw, hw, and repeat.

Another bonus I think people are overlooking is riptides buff to chain heal. Granted, chain heal isn't the most optimal heal in most situations, but with the change of it not consuming riptide, and our ability to riptide multiple targets quickly, it might just help increase chain heals quality.

So, thoughts, ideas? Mainly wanted to bring it up because I still see people not taking it and saying it isn't worth it because they don't want to become a druid. I'd love to hear if someone thinks otherwise.
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86 Dwarf Hunter
9850
Same. I have been using it since it became available
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90 Dwarf Shaman
7640
I tried it out last night, but didn't care for it. The only place i could see it really needed is in a VERY heavy movement fight.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
10455
Love it. It helps keep Riptide up almost indefinitely across the board, it helps keep Tidal Waves going all the time and the bonus to Chain Heal is also very useful. I love this glyph.
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90 Draenei Shaman
7735
Would you use this if you primarily played BGs?
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90 Draenei Shaman
7730
nooo

for bgs you need to 20-30k crit heal that the initial riptide gives.
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90 Draenei Shaman
7735
nooo

for bgs you need to 20-30k crit heal that the initial riptide gives.


=(

God we're boring in there.
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90 Orc Shaman
5205
I don't feel the use of riptide was ever really justified by it's initial heal...
It was a meager heal, that supplied an alright HoT, and an amazing buff.
I see no reason not to use it.

Would you use this if you primarily played BGs?

Yes, I would
Edited by Vogal on 10/3/2012 1:21 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
7730
=(

God we're boring in there.


i love bgs...

can do like 4million heals in like 10seconds during Ascendance / SWG interrupt immunity and healing tide totem.
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90 Draenei Shaman
10545
IMO the glyph is not worth taking at the moment due to the importance of efficiency (once regen is higher it may be worth taking). In the first raid of an expansion, efficiency is everything, and while you may say that you shouldn't rely on the initial heal, but it allows you to be more efficient. The initial riptide heal can crit for over 100k with unleash elements :D.

Having said that, I definitely will be trying out the glyph tonight for Elegon attempts tonight :).
Edited by Kreyyn on 10/3/2012 2:57 PM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
6655
10/03/2012 02:40 PMPosted by Kreyyn
Having said that, I definitely will be trying out the glyph tonight for Elegon attempts tonight :).


I agree I feel it is situation, also would go so far as to say it depends if your running 10 or 25 mans AND what healing team you are running with.

Healed with a druid last night and I switched out the glyph right away. I honestly like the initial heal and really there should not so much damage going out to justify "spamming" more or less RT.
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90 Goblin Shaman
10345
Edited by Kreyyn on 10/3/12 2:57 PM (PDT)



IMO the glyph is not worth taking at the moment due to the importance of efficiency (once regen is higher it may be worth taking).


this. at least for 25m there is no question that mana efficiency is your primary concern and taking 40% of the spell away is absolutely pointless right now. I have a hard enough time maintaing enough mana to heal effectively without gimping my throughput and efficiency.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
11235
You guys saw that it isn't very good with mana efficiency, but I don't see that. You shouldn't be blanketing people with riptides just because they might take damage. The idea is, without a cooldown, you are able to get multiples riptides, hence tidal wave stacks. With constant tidal wave stacks, it allows you to constantly use healing wave at a greater speed, aka your mana efficient heal.

I'm just curious as to how it is mana inneficient, if some one who has an idea could explain that would be great.
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90 Dwarf Shaman
9300
You just have to watch it carefully. It's NOT Rejuv. You can't toss it out and blanket, or you're just gonna overheal and oom. What made Riptide so attractive up until now was it's cost versus it's cooldown. It's virtually free when you factor in Resurgence and straight MP5.

I say leave it alone on any kind of traditional mechanic, and for PvP.

I would consider using it if your 10man runs like a Hpally/Rshaman setup, and you need the consistant HoT for a specific fight. It's just a glyph, not a talent rework.
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90 Troll Shaman
9915
With chain heal no longer removing riptide off the initial target, I think its worth it.

It is just a glyph but it is a prime glyph, thus being somewhat important, but I believe its more of just a personal preference. If you like throwing out hots and can afford it, by all means use it. If you need to restrict yourself to conserve mana, then use something else.
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90 Goblin Shaman
10345
10/04/2012 07:00 AMPosted by Cartheoda
I'm just curious as to how it is mana inneficient, if some one who has an idea could explain that would be great.


i posted the math behind this a couple of weeks ago when people were talking up this glyph during 5.0.5. That was of course in 85 gear but the principles hold true. Basically the initial heal goes away with the glyph... you don't get any extra ticks or healing you just lose that heal. That heal is the heal that also procs resurgence, so you also lose your chance of gaining back mana from the RT spell.

The extra haste you gain is almost a non-factor... it was significantly better to RT/ 3 HW without the glyph than to RT / 2 HW with the glyph from both a HPS and HPM perspective.

I did a quick search and here is the thread where I did the math at 85 (obviously the numbers have changed but the theory is basically the same).

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6572969057?page=2

i also didnt even through in the added benefit of resurgence into that post but in theory... you'd be getting something like 1 extra resurgence proc per 40ish? seconds (rough guess with 15% raid buffed crit).
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90 Goblin Shaman
14290
You guys saw that it isn't very good with mana efficiency, but I don't see that. You shouldn't be blanketing people with riptides just because they might take damage. The idea is, without a cooldown, you are able to get multiples riptides, hence tidal wave stacks. With constant tidal wave stacks, it allows you to constantly use healing wave at a greater speed, aka your mana efficient heal.

I'm just curious as to how it is mana inneficient, if some one who has an idea could explain that would be great.


The glyph is roughly a 35% throughput hit on a spell that costs about 70% more mana than HW which only ends up doing about 8k more healing than HW when glyphed as opposed to the 18k it does when un-glyphed. Basically when un-glyphed riptide is only slightly more inefficient than HW, and much more inefficient when glyphed. Now obviously the strength of the glyph is that it let's you blanket HoT the raid or have on-demand tidal waves.

The first strength isn't sustainable atm so that leaves the on-demand tidal waves. This seems great until you take into account that when chain-casting HWs you can only fit 3 HWs between the normal 6s cooldown. So you would only have 1 un-hasted HW between un-glyphed riptide anyway, furthermore using the glyph to always have hasted HWs directly increases your mana consumption anyway (assuming you don't get any lucky crit shenanigans). So not only does using the glyph hit your riptide efficiency it also increases your mana consumption to maintain a 100% uptime on TWs, which isn't vital for your efficient heal in the first place. To top if off this is all assuming you're chain-casting HW, in which case chances are you care more about being as efficient as possible as opposed to maximizing the throughput of your efficient spell.

The glyph is never an efficiency increase because of this and in general only serves as a method to raid heal when spread or while mobile.
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90 Draenei Shaman
7640
I've been using it since it was available and actually might dump for the longer chain heal. The initial heal of riptide is extremely potent given our mastery. Maybe on fights where all I do is move around but that is all. The guys over in Life in Group 5 and Plusheal seem to think that all the excitement over this glyph was for nothing. The only other way I could see this being valuable is 2 healing perhaps, and even then as stated early expansion you're not going to want to be spamming this anyways for efficiency reasons. If you've played resto shaman at all in MOP then you know how fast we can go oom trying to go all out.
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87 Draenei Shaman
3365
Perhaps I'm not the best healer, but I find riptide's instant heal very useful for keeping people alive. Unless I want to drop a big raid cooldown, I only have two options for quick intervention: nature's swiftness + GHW, or riptide. Using the riptide glyph would take one of these away.
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