RET PVE - Need Help

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90 Human Paladin
11805
I started this toon in Cata and leveled pretty much as a prot until I hit 85. My guild at the time pushed me to go holy so I could be a healer and I went with it. I never really liked healing, but I did it. I decided in MoP I would try ret, my DPS offspec to level.

My DPS is horrible...doing instances I do like 16-17k DPS...I guess I need help. When I saw an 89 lock do 32k I figured something was really wrong here.

Check out my talent picks and glyphs...something that I should have to make it better? I follow the standard rotation. The thing I find that I am a every 3-5min burst of dps and then crap. When soloing this really isn't fun and I love my pally but I am getting severely turned off by how crap my DPS is.

Help pls!
90 Human Paladin
7070
Try using divine purpose instead of sanctified wrath, for a bit more random burst.
Use the glyphs harsh words, word of glory and Inquisition.
Use word of glory instead of Templar's verdict when ever you have 3 holy power, for the 3% increase in damage.
It may be out of the ordinary but it works!
And since inquisition lasts for a minute instead, you will have more time to use holy power on direct damage spells.
Hope this helps. :)
90 Blood Elf Paladin
8565
Yeah that's darn low. Lets's see what we can do here. Now, I haven't played this guy in MoP so take what I say with a grain of salt. Here goes:

Talents: Most of them dont affect dps, but there are two that I would personally change.
Most people, including myself, take Long Arm of the Law because in instances we're almost constantly in combat and almost constantly judging. Pursuit of Justice also causes spikes in speed, which can be weird, and encourages you to hold onto holy power. But, again, not a big dps difference. The only thing I can see is that you would be able to sprint to mobs and get in dps range faster.

The rest are OK if that's what you prefer, except for Sanctified Wrath. This isnt a bad talent, but if you feel that you are bursting and then are worthless, picking up diving purpose can help. Sanctified Wrath will be better in a raid environment when you get the 4pc t14 for ret.

Stats: Not seeing any reforges. I believe priority goes something like this:
STR>hit/exp to cap>haste>mastery>crit
With the new Sanctity of Battle, haste is now an amazing stat for us. It does everything!
We get more seal of truth ticks, faster weapon swings = more art of war exo procs, but the most important part is lower cooldowns on all of our core abilities.

So you're still gearing, and that's ok. Ret is more gear dependent than a warlock, so your dps will most likely be lower. But should be able to get more than 16-17k by pressing the right buttons at the right time. What is your rotation for both single target and AoE?

Single Target should follow the priority system of
Hammer of Wrath>EXO>Crusader Strike>Judgement
And use Templar's Verdict when you either can't generate any more Holy Power because your abilities are on CD, or you are at 5 holy Power already.

AoE is basically the single target rotation, but keep hammer of the righteous on cooldown and use Divine Storm when you can, providing that you can't use Hammer of the Righteous and gain more holy power.

It's important to know that using divine storm becomes more efficient that Templar's Verdict on only 2 targets. Only use Templar's Verdict for a single target. Divine storm also bypasses armor, unlike Templar's Verdict, causing the effect to be even more drastic on some mobs.

Even when AoEing, It is usually more beneficial to use seal of truth. Seal of Righteousness is pretty weak, and only surpasses SoT when more than 8 targets are present.

The final piece is making good use of Inquisition. It should be up at all times during combat. Most people use an add-on like Weakauras to help them keep track of this important buff. When to cast it again is best left to your own judgement(not the spell). Don't cut it off too short if you can wait use another ability and then refresh it a few seconds later, before it drops off. At the same time though, Dpsing without it is more than a 30% dps loss( its also a loss of 10% crit)

The only other thing I can think of is to fill in your third glyph slot, either with Mass Exorcism, or Double Jeopardy.

I hope this helps for now.
Edited by Arte on 10/4/2012 1:54 PM PDT
90 Blood Elf Paladin
5610
I bet it's your rotation. Define "standard" rotation for us please, maybe you've got something backwards.
90 Tauren Paladin
8815
Use the talents I have. Most of them are either situational so you can choose what you like, but others like Sanctified Wrath are calculated to give you the best, most reliable DPS in the time period it's usable for.

Combine Sanctified Avenging Wrath with Guardian and start chucking those hammers.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
12705
10/04/2012 07:08 AMPosted by Arte
Divine Purpose will be better in a raid environment when you get the 4pc t14 for ret.


Wrong, you want SW when you get 4pc T14. And I don't know why all these ppl say take DP, it's a DPS loss over HA.

The reason the OP is low on dps is cause we pretty much suck lvling from 86-90 because we are very gear dependent. Once you reach 90 and get geared in 450-463 ilvl gear you will notice a big difference.
Edited by Rendella on 10/4/2012 11:03 AM PDT
90 Blood Elf Paladin
8565
10/04/2012 11:00 AMPosted by Rendella
Divine Purpose will be better in a raid environment when you get the 4pc t14 for ret.


Wrong, you want SW when you get 4pc T14. And I don't know why all these ppl say take DP, it's a DPS loss over HA.

The reason the OP is low on dps is cause we pretty much suck lvling from 86-90 because we are very gear dependent. Once you reach 90 and get geared in 450-463 ilvl gear you will notice a big difference.


Thanks for the edit, I meant SW, but for some reason said DP. I've fixed it now
90 Human Paladin
5685
Divine Purpose will be better in a raid environment when you get the 4pc t14 for ret.


Wrong, you want SW when you get 4pc T14. And I don't know why all these ppl say take DP, it's a DPS loss over HA.

The reason the OP is low on dps is cause we pretty much suck lvling from 86-90 because we are very gear dependent. Once you reach 90 and get geared in 450-463 ilvl gear you will notice a big difference.


Was still getting high 20k - low 30k from 86-90. Combat rating decay pretty much off-sets any strength or weapon damage you gain on the way up.

DP is recommended because a lot of people don't use CDs effectively. They won't use them off of CD or on trash, so any time it isn't used is DPS lost.

For the HA to outweigh DP assumes ...
1.) It gets full use out of a trinket proc
2.) It is used 12 seconds after GoAK
3.) You have an 18 second gap where it won't get interrupted
4.) You aren't holding onto it too long to avoid 3.

So unless the encounter calls for serious controlled burst like Spine, then its really not worth the trouble.

As fun as it was to just burst down heroic bosses in Cata, it really spoiled my day to hit my cooldown macro and immediately get grabbed by the boss, completely random.
Edited by Kamine on 10/4/2012 2:26 PM PDT
90 Draenei Paladin
9900
There's barely a 1% difference in DPS between the three tier 5 talents before T14 raid gear. However, I will suggest using HA for 5-mans and DP for questing. HA's controlled burst is outstanding for short encounters like 5-man bosses and DP will give you more use than remembering to pop AW or HA will during questing.

Other than talent dancing and working on your rotation, there isn't much you can do about your DPS in 5-mans before 90. Not a lot of sense in trying to reforge and stuff.
Edited by Svayne on 10/4/2012 2:36 PM PDT
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9495
Try using divine purpose instead of sanctified wrath, for a bit more random burst.
Use the glyphs harsh words, word of glory and Inquisition.
Use word of glory instead of Templar's verdict when ever you have 3 holy power, for the 3% increase in damage.
It may be out of the ordinary but it works!
And since inquisition lasts for a minute instead, you will have more time to use holy power on direct damage spells.
Hope this helps. :)


Do not follow a single word of this.

Harsh Words (unless out of range), irrespective of the damage buff is a universal DPS loss, as is Inquisition

it might be fine for solo questing. slowly.
90 Human Paladin
9205
Seeing how retribution is gear dependent, and your gear isn't very stellar OP, I guess you can connect the 2 together.

Besides that, you want to try to get exp/hit cap asap (I think it's 6% exp/hit for heroic boss mobs). After that, stat weights are Haste > Mastery=Crit (mastery is a little bit higher, but not a noticeable difference).

Talent wise, the 2 main ones you need would be Holy Avenger and Execution Sentence.

For a starting boss rotation, pop GotAK, wait about 10 seconds, refresh Inquisition around 8 sec or so, then pop Avenging Wrath -> Execution Sentence -> Holy Avenger in that order. Spam HoW -> TV -> Exo/CS -> TV -> HoW and so on and so on. Boss will probably be dead because that's how stupid our burst is.
90 Human Paladin
11805
Thanks for the hints. I hit lvl 90...I got it up to around 24k dps but my problem seems to be when I see a prot paladin less geared than me doing 34k...is this normal or am I not doing the right rotation?

I use CS+judgement+exo and when i get 3 bars I make sure inq is up. Then I use TV every time I get 3 bars or a proc for a free TV. I use Holy Prisim every 30sec and my hammer every time the CD is refreshed along with guardian. Obviously I haven't done any reforging, enchants, gems...but the prot i was just with had neither and his stuff was all lower than me...so what am I doing wrong?
90 Draenei Paladin
9900
Thanks for the hints. I hit lvl 90...I got it up to around 24k dps but my problem seems to be when I see a prot paladin less geared than me doing 34k...is this normal or am I not doing the right rotation?

I use CS+judgement+exo and when i get 3 bars I make sure inq is up. Then I use TV every time I get 3 bars or a proc for a free TV. I use Holy Prisim every 30sec and my hammer every time the CD is refreshed along with guardian. Obviously I haven't done any reforging, enchants, gems...but the prot i was just with had neither and his stuff was all lower than me...so what am I doing wrong?

Reforging is very important. You need to be sure that you have at least 6% Hit and Expertise for 5-mans. After that, get some Haste. In fact, get lots of Haste.

You should also take a loot at this: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3657441833

Hope this helps. Good luck.
90 Tauren Paladin
9345
for dps, go 320 haste > 180 strength when you around the 480 item level mark or higher, use Sanctified Wrath over Holy Avenger because you have a longer time at more increased damage and more hammer spamming. When you first go into combat for boss, use your Avenging Wrath and Guardian of Ancient Kings together, wait till the buff from Guardian stacks to 20, pop your Execution Sentence and ujst hammer - exo - hammer - cs - hammer, basically hammer every other time so its up, use inquisition at 3 HP and always keep up inquisition, and TV at every 5 while you have Avenging Wrath up
90 Draenei Paladin
10670
You might try using CLCRet as an addon as well. It'll get you used to the priority system our abilities use. It also makes it easy if you lose track of which ability you need to queue up next or if you have a hard time keeping Inquisition up (which is really important) on time.

--Jed
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