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Well, once you get high enough for crits to hurt, you should probably stay in defensive stance.
Revenge, even though nerfed, still hits like a truck.
*edit* and yes, without vengeance prot blows at higher levels.
Edited by Theodorr on 10/5/2012 9:00 AM PDT
Good concept, but it just won't work quite so well for dungeons or for level 90. Prot hits really hard at lower levels, and you can actually out dps many people...but then again, you have holy paladins, disc priests and tanks topping dps charts all the way up until end game TBC dungeons. I wouldn't base your future warrior plans off of pre 85 leveling tbh. Leveling as prot is the way to go, but dpsing as prot may get you trolled, even if you do top the charts.
I leveled my warrior to 90 in prot spec using dmg gear, but that is mainly because I am on a PvP server on my main account and I need to burst to actually do something with my survivability. A good prot warrior that is well geared while leveling should result in said prot being able to stay at 35% hp (assuming you have Second Wind) and you can: Solo some dungeon bosses, solo all of the MoP rare spawns, and even take on 2 or more dps people in WPvP at the same time. I was able to solo a rare spawn while a hunter and some mobs were attacking me. Because of a MoP bug (maybe working as intended), I could get victory rushes even from mobs the hunter had tagged, and was getting constant VicRush heals + SW3% HP1 heals.
I don't know if you are on a PvP server, but regardless, going prot as dps gear up until level 90 will barely see a difference in dps, but you can pull over 20 mobs easy as prot and you truy start tanking once you are at 35% hp. Until you get to 35% hp, your health will get wittled down rather fast. Executes seem to hit for the same amount for both fury and prot while leveling, but prot has a better chance of using it since it is not quite so rage starved. With a 25% damage reduction in def stance + -40% damage taken with Shield Wall + -20% white (physical) damage taken from your 1 minute cd shout + -10% white damage taken from TC, you are a force to be reckoned with.
You would want to spec into Shockwave for leveling as a prot dps (go prot tank, fury dps upon reaching 90). Shockwave lets you do massive pulls while still letting you do a mass aoe stun every 20 seconds in case your hp gets low. While they are stunned, your Second Wind can bring you from 1% hp to being able to use warrior abilities to take less dmg, raise max and current hp, and come back to above 35% within Seconds. You should be seeing most of the mobs around you that you pull dealing massive amounts of damage to you and you will fall to below 35% hp really quick with 10+ mobs, but by that time, the main mob you are attacking should be around low hp. Just popping one single CD is enough to keep you up long enough to kill that guy, get a VicRush, and then from there most other mobs will have low hp so you should heal back up to near max hp with back to back VicRushes.
Keep in mind that there are two ways to do massive pulls. One you will want to do for PvP servers, the other is when you have no worry about being attacked. For PvP servers, you will want to keep up your defensive abilities so that way you are using rage to keep your Shield Barrier up. That costs 20 rage so to keep it up 100% of the time will leave you with too little rage to Execute most times when mobs drop to low hp, but it should leave you at most fights with 100% hp or near 100% hp.
The other way is simply to just burst. You use HS for 30 rage even when it is not procced, use your Devestate while you wait for procs, use those asap, use HS as soon as it does proc for a free HS, then use it again if you have the rage. Spamming HS will leave you too rage starved to use Shield Barrier, so your hp will fall into Second Wind procs, but you will hardly ever drop below 35% hp. I recommend this for PvE servers simply because when someone sees you at 35% with 20 mobs, they assume you are going down and that the mobs are killing you, and they will likely attack. If they see you with 100% hp vs. 10 more more mobs, they will think you are super op and will likely not attack you. Even if they do, you kite mobs in the area and kill them when you need some extra hp from a VicRush. That should give you 20% of your hp everytime you get into a tough spot for WPvP.
So, that is my prot leveling guide. Do huge pulls, pop cds, and utilize Victory Rush and cc's. I highly recommend using fury at least 20% of the time per each level so that way you don't get to level 90, and then start to learn fury. So use your prot and your fury, and come out just fine. You may want to go TG fury as leveling, but as level 90, you'll want to go SMF simply because getting two great 2h weps are a pain to get. If you don't break 2.2k rating in rbgs or arenas, you risk taking weeks to get your TG weps, for dungeons and raids, same basic concept. Also, you can do more dps as a well played SMF in PvE if you know what you are doing.
Level prot, dps as fury, and do world PvP as prot if you need to stay alive. If it is one single guy that you tried to kill as fury but his damage sucked and so did yours, go into fury and burst him down. Fury for WPvP works best vs: Arcane mages, Rdruids, Hpallies, destrolocks, boomkins, rogues, dks, monks, Hpriests, arms warriors, and other less skilled fury warriors. Prot works best vs: frost and fire mages, hunters, dps ferals (never guardians), disc priests, spriests, and vs. other guys who were able to burst you down as fury and it is also good for 2v1, 3v1 or even 4v1. Yes, you can solo 4 people in WPvP back to back as prot if they don't know what they are doing, even if they are your own level. DON'T try to take on a blood dk, prot pally, guardian druid or other prot warrior in WPvP if you are prot. Neither one of you will die, and you may waste 20 minutes or more. I did that to a blood dk once, and he never let me run away to mount when I got bored. We both got back-up from friends and that's how it ended.
Thanks for the post. Lots of good info. I have a level 80 warrior but stopped playing a long time ago. Decided to start as a panda to learn how to play again and wanted to check out the noob area. Im on a PVP server but haven't left Orgrimmar since level 20.
LFD and instant queues.
I am both fury and prot speced. I just queue as DPS and tank if the tank dies or "dcs". I just started going in as prot to dps. I was blown away how much more my DPS increased over fury. Im not even tanking either.
Looking forward to tonight's DPS as a prot warrior ;)
In PvE? No, not at maximum level. Tank damage is, for the most part, balanced around a certain amount of Vengeance; without that Vengeance, your damage will be subpar even to other tanks. However, even a Prot Warrior with a massive Vengeance stack and aiming to maximize damage will usually not do as much as a dps spec (at 90) simply because they're not designed for it; they lack appropriate mechanics.
In PvP, maybe. Not as a flag carrier, obviously, but if you were to push offensive gemming with some defense on the side (say, Strength in red sockets, PvP power in blue, and resil or a resil hybrid in yellow) you could increase your damage enough to kill people, certainly, because of how PvP Power affects damage done to other players and because all of Prot's moves except HS are based on AP scaling solely, and therefore improve with Strength stacking more than a spec based on weapon damage would.
You're not going to do as much damage as Arms or Fury, but you should know that. By speccing Prot you swap damage for survivability; instead of the FC setup, where you maximize that defense, you could instead use your (now actually viable) options to try and compensate for your lacking offense. It'd be a different playstyle, and it's yet to be seen whether it works in practice. However, using the last time Prot PvP could kill people as a reference (T10 2piece ArPen stacking) it probably will.
Hit level 42 last night. DPS still tops the charts. I actually stay in battle stance instead of fury because rage builds up much faster. HS rage dumps often.
Cant wait to get dragons roar or shockwave. I am leaning towards dragons roar.
too bad eveyrone with half a brian is playing at 90 and not at 40's or else without defensive stance youd lose aggro, as well as have someone come on here telling you how full of poop you are saying you tank and get more rage in battle than in fury...tanking=things hit you= more rage gain vs battle just relying on your crap chance of hitting something
Wait so when it procs it doesn't cause a gcd?
I think some people are missing the point of this thread.
At what point does prot spec not become a viable dps spec? :)
Level 47 now, still top of the dps meters and I'm not the tank.
I use HS when I have extra rage and other abilities are on cool down. I picked up the glyph for extra TS damage. Now that deep wounds applies to all targets, it does great aoe damage.
@weepea, thanks you understood the question :) Any idea what level? 47 I still top the charts.
I won't comment on low level leveling as prot (first time i touched this toon in 14 months), but leveling from 85-90 as prot seemed a little slow.
Granted, I was leveling as a easy mode voidwalker+demo lock as my first 90, but it seemed slower.
The good news is you are unkillable while leveling. It doesn't matter what you pull, you will live if you spam shield barrier.
I would suggest leveling in defensive instead of berserker, since your shield slam and revenge only generate fury in those (also, thunderclap is free for aoe killing).
At 90, I rank up there with good dps. For those that are geared and know their class, yes they will outdps you (if they didn't, something would be very wrong XD).
Vengeance seems too powerful tbh, i'm not used to tanks doing this much damage (though towards the end of cata, this started to change).
It is certainly viable though you may not sense it is doing damage. Usually I'd be doing my rotation and thinking i'm doing okay, then look over and see I've done 80k dps and scratching my head (hint, deep wounds and tclap, and revenge hit a lot harder than you might think, even post nerf).
I havent left orgrimmar since level 15. I just LFD and do randoms. I queue as DPS in prot spec.
I stay in battle stance so I dont get aggro from the tank.
Just finished zul ferak, was around 800 dps, rest of group around 300-400 range.
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