Wasn't MoP supposed to be about the War?

85 Blood Elf Warlock
4480
10/07/2012 03:29 AMPosted by Elrith
Too many of you mooks ruin any appreciation of the lore by insisting on viewing it yourself through the lens of your main character and ignoring the intentions of the storytellers. It's cute the way you spin things, but far too often it becomes the basis for sulky criticism.


I don't appreciate Anduin.

Whether in character or not.

The intentions of the storytellers suck.
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
12225
He could have been mind-controlling you.

If anyone has any better ideas, I'm all ears.


As the Council of Black Harvest points out, we warlock don't really care for the war.

At all.

In any way.

We care about ourselves and our fellow warlocks before we even bother to deal with all this political nonsense.

Anduin = power and political favor.

Garrosh = useless unappreciative schmuck.

On a slightly RP note.
Edited by Baalsamael on 10/7/2012 8:24 AM PDT
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91 Tauren Death Knight
12965
10/07/2012 03:29 AMPosted by Elrith
Too many of you mooks ruin any appreciation of the lore by insisting on viewing it yourself through the lens of your main character and ignoring the intentions of the storytellers. It's cute the way you spin things, but far too often it becomes the basis for sulky criticism.


I agree with Elrith. RP and the actual storyline are separate. Considering that CDev has a very specific storyline they want to tell, they have to assume that the player character is a selfless Hero, someone who has risen above the petty conflicts of the Alliance and Horde, has taken on great threats to the world and won, and has the best interest of Azeroth at heart. They also do this because only a small percentage of the population RPs, but a substantial portion of the playerbase follows the story, especially considering the very positive response the storyline of MoP has received thus far.

For example, take the Goblin starting experience. Not everyone could have been a powerful executive and second to Gallywix. But, from a storyline perspective, that is what we see. I find that the best way to RP is to cherry-pick what my character has seen in the storyline and what they haven't, even if I actually did every quest, dungeon, and raid. Honestly, I hope someday Blizzard throws RPers a bone and places in a few systems to help shape one's character separate from the main storyline.

I don't appreciate Anduin.

Whether in character or not.

The intentions of the storytellers suck.


This is a separate complaint, though. It is also one that not everyone may agree with. For example, I actually enjoyed questing with Anduin as I found I actually agreed with what he was saying. Several members of my guild, who are into lore but not RPers, felt the same, mainly because we feel the war is asinine and want Garrosh's head to be mounted on our mantelpiece whenever they implement Guild Halls. This is coming from a proud Horde guild, no less.

I can respect where you are coming from, though, especially as someone who may be angered at the Horde's actions against the Alliance.
Edited by Abal on 10/7/2012 9:38 AM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
12225
I agree with Elrith. RP and the actual storyline are separate. Considering that CDev has a very specific storyline they want to tell, they have to assume that the player character is a selfless Hero, someone who has risen above the petty conflicts of the Alliance and Horde, has taken on great threats to the world and won, and has the best interest of Azeroth at heart. They also do this because only a small percentage of the population RPs, but a substantial portion of the playerbase follows the story, especially considering the very positive response the storyline of MoP has received thus far.

For example, take the Goblin starting experience. Not everyone could have been a powerful executive and second to Gallywix. But, from a storyline perspective, that is what we see. I find that the best way to RP is to cherry-pick what my character has seen in the storyline and what they haven't, even if I actually did every quest, dungeon, and raid. Honestly, I hope someday Blizzard throws RPers a bone and places in a few systems to help shape one's character separate from the main storyline.


Alright I agree. However, you also have to admit from a race-by-race story perspective, it doesn't really make much sense. I imagine Garrosh appears for the Alliance player in the Temple of Xuen, no? Would a Draeni hate Garrosh, specifically, to the point where the Sha of Hatred would manifest is that form?

I agree that Night Elves should've had Garrosh appear, as Humans obviously, and conversely in general for Orcs and Undead for Varian to appear, but say for a Goblin, a Blood Elf, a Draeni, and the like?

I would've imagined perhaps Worgen to have Sylvanas appear, for example.

EDIT:

I feel like this is just a small, perhaps trivial example of "the main story is Orcs and Humans (and respective friends)".
Edited by Baalsamael on 10/7/2012 10:18 AM PDT
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91 Tauren Death Knight
12965

I feel like this is just a small, perhaps trivial example of "the main story is Orcs and Humans (and respective friends)".


I would say that, at this point, Orcs and Humans (With Friends) is exactly where they are going. More specifically, the Horde is led by the Orcs, the Alliance is led by the Humans, while the other races all support the Warchief, an Orc, or the High King, a Human, respecively. Although this appears to water down the races, I feel Blizzard is slowly grooming us to say "I am a member of the Horde or Alliance" instead of saying "I am a Tauren/Night Elf/etc, but I support the Horde/Alliance".

Think of it like this: the United States is a nation of great cultural diversity. We have European, African, Asian, and Latin ancestries, but we all view ourselves as American. The same can be said of the now-defunct USSR. Multiple ethnicites all under one banner. We can take it a step further by saying we are either a member of NATO or the Warsaw Pact. I feel this is what CDev is going for: we have our culture as a backround, but we are either Alliance or Horde.
Edited by Abal on 10/7/2012 10:32 AM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
12225
I would say that, at this point, Orcs and Humans (With Friends) is exactly where they are going. More specifically, the Horde is led by the Orcs, the Alliance is led by the Humans, while the other races all support the Warchief, an Orc, or the High King, a Human, respecively. Although this appears to water down the races, I feel Blizzard is slowly grooming us to say "I am a member of the Horde or Alliance" instead of saying "I am a Tauren/Night Elf/etc, but I support the Horde/Alliance".

Think of it like this: the United States is a nation of great cultural diversity. We have European, African, Asian, and Latin ancestries, but we all view ourselves as American. The same can be said of the now-defunct USSR. Multiple ethnicites all under one banner. We can take it a step further by saying we are either a member of NATO or the Warsaw Pact. I feel this is what CDev is going for: we have our culture as a backround, but we are either Alliance or Horde.


Except it isn't like that at all. For example, I, someone born in Colombia, though raised in the US, consider myself Colombian before American. As do most people of my generation (College/highschool) who were born in foreign countries but were raised here. It's just something fairly consistent. People born here, with no connection to their "ancestral" country other than bloodline and perhaps a second language, consider themselves American before ______ usually.

There is no reason to say that Azeroth would be any different. A Blood Elf or a Night Elf, for example, who both have seen countless generations of humans rise and fall, would not dare consider themselves a "part" of the Human Alliance or Orcish Horde. They are allies, completely equal, and if anything, the Blood Elves, the Undead, the Night Elves, the Draeni should have MORE power than the Humans and the Orcs, given history and military/magical power, on a side note. But this whole "you are a loyal servant of the Horde/Alliance" is just... blegh. I don't like it IRL, I don't like it in a game.

I just find it almost absurd that Varian and Garrosh are now considered your absolute overlord that you are devoted and loyal to. I just wish for slight variation and detail for each race (and in a magical world where wishes come true, for each class too).
Edited by Baalsamael on 10/7/2012 10:56 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
7150
I wasn't thrilled either when it was announced... I kind of thought it may have been WoW's 'jump the shark' moment but I still tried keeping an open mind (yes I realize that's kind of contradictory)...

But once I started playing it I have to say it's been pretty amazing. I'm glad we're not fighting dragons, old gods, demons, or undead anymore. It's a breath of fresh air. They've done an amazing job with the Pandaran culture. The lore is fantastic, the visual imagery has been the best to date.

I hope that the upcoming patches don't diminish the game the way they did with Cata which became worse with every patch.
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100 Worgen Rogue
10420
The next patch will have new daily quest hubs pushing the war effort along with repfactions for those hubs. The original plight this thread was made to examine has been rendered moot. Patiance is a virtue.

P.S. Im a hypocrite as i want Worgen Monks and I want them NOW
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91 Tauren Death Knight
12965


Except it isn't like that at all. For example, I, someone born in Colombia, though raised in the US, consider myself Colombian before American. As do most people of my generation (College/highschool) who were born in foreign countries but were raised here. It's just something fairly consistent. People born here, with no connection to their "ancestral" country other than bloodline and perhaps a second language, consider themselves American before ______ usually.

There is no reason to say that Azeroth would be any different. A Blood Elf or a Night Elf, for example, who both have seen countless generations of humans rise and fall, would not dare consider themselves a "part" of the Human Alliance or Orcish Horde. They are allies, completely equal, and if anything, the Blood Elves, the Undead, the Night Elves, the Draeni should have MORE power than the Humans and the Orcs, given history and military/magical power, on a side note. But this whole "you are a loyal servant of the Horde/Alliance" is just... blegh. I don't like it IRL, I don't like it in a game.


Perhaps using countries was a bad example then. However, I feel the NATO/Warsaw Pact is an apt-comparison. Or, if we want to reach back slightly further with more flavor, the Allies and Axis powers. As a member of an allied military orginization, the members hailed from a specific country, but pledged their allegiance to said orginization. In wartime, we identified with an alliance of countries just as much as we identified with our birth country. The Alliance and Horde are similar to a degree; the individual nation-states all run their own governments and have their own culture, but are ultimately apart of a much larger military alliance. As members of said military, we pledge ourselves to the one in charge: the Warchief or, now, the High King.
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
12225
10/07/2012 11:31 AMPosted by Abal
Perhaps using countries was a bad example then. However, I feel the NATO/Warsaw Pact is an apt-comparison. Or, if we want to reach back slightly further with more flavor, the Allies and Axis powers. As a member of an allied military orginization, the members hailed from a specific country, but pledged their allegiance to said orginization. In wartime, we identified with an alliance of countries just as much as we identified with our birth country. The Alliance and Horde are similar to a degree; the individual nation-states all run their own governments and have their own culture, but are ultimately apart of a much larger military alliance. As members of said military, we pledge ourselves to the one in charge: the Warchief or, now, the High King.


And though we pledge ourselves to serve, it does not mean that we believe the propaganda intrinsically.
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1 Blood Elf Rogue
0
10/07/2012 09:33 AMPosted by Abal
they have to assume that the player character is a selfless Hero, someone who has risen above the petty conflicts of the Alliance and Horde


The problem here is that it's handled really inconsistently, and there's no development from one scene to the next. At one moment, I'm slaughtering alliance soldiers by the dozens and expending massive amounts of effort to kidnap the Prince, in the next I'm suddenly 'above' the conflict and taking the kid out on field trips through Krasarang?

Worse, the two instances seem entirely disconnected from each other. No one at all seems perturbed that the guy who, a few hours ago, was trying to kidnap him is now going to be taking him alone into a sha infested jungle.

Though the whole premise of asserting that the character should be 'above' the conflict when that's going to be one of the main focuses of the expansion seems really off to me in the first place.

10/07/2012 03:29 AMPosted by Elrith
Too many of you mooks ruin any appreciation of the lore by insisting on viewing it yourself through the lens of your main character and ignoring the intentions of the storytellers. It's cute the way you spin things, but far too often it becomes the basis for sulky criticism.


It shouldn't be that easy to "ruin" the storytelling in the first place. And I'm not viewing it through the prism of my personal representation of the character (if I were I'd be whining about how Blizzard shouldn't turn Garrosh into a loot pinata because my paladin has a crush on him or some such nonsense.), I'm only talking about Blizzard's own representation here. Which, again, has me go from attempted kidnapping to babysitting, loyal horde warrior to borderline traitor, without anyone even raising an eyebrow.

I'm glad we're not fighting dragons, old gods, demons, or undead anymore.


Aren't the Sha supposed to be fragments of an old god or something?
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91 Tauren Death Knight
12965
they have to assume that the player character is a selfless Hero, someone who has risen above the petty conflicts of the Alliance and Horde


The problem here is that it's handled really inconsistently, and there's no development from one scene to the next. At one moment, I'm slaughtering alliance soldiers by the dozens and expending massive amounts of effort to kidnap the Prince, in the next I'm suddenly 'above' the conflict and taking the kid out on field trips through Krasarang?

Worse, the two instances seem entirely disconnected from each other. No one at all seems perturbed that the guy who, a few hours ago, was trying to kidnap him is now going to be taking him alone into a sha infested jungle.

Though the whole premise of asserting that the character should be 'above' the conflict when that's going to be one of the main focuses of the expansion seems really off to me in the first place.


The problem with this line of thought is that it does not happen this way. Nazgrim's ragtag band of soldiers captures Anduin completely independently of the player. We are simply told how it has happened through flashbacks. When we see him in Krasarang, we are completely on our own in adventure mode.

Aren't the Sha supposed to be fragments of an old god or something?


No, the Sha are physical manifestations of our own emotions. The reason the Sha exist on Pandaria is due to Y'Shaarj placing a curse upon Pandaria at the time of his ultimate destruction. The Sha are simply an echo of Y'Shaarj's power, not fragments of Y'Shaarj himself.


And though we pledge ourselves to serve, it does not mean that we believe the propaganda intrinsically.


I am not saying you should. But, as a soldier, you follow orders.
Edited by Abal on 10/7/2012 12:37 PM PDT
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70 Troll Rogue
3950
Im pretty sure that, if Anduin was found to be held hostage or killed by the horde, daddy Varian would make Garrosh look like a pony.Especially since they just finished bombing Theramore.

So, until the Alliance decides to actually LOOK for him, you're gonna have to stick with doing what the little brat wants

EDIT: im probably missing some major points here. Havent gotten to Jade Forest as the Horde
Edited by Jonnyawesome on 10/7/2012 12:43 PM PDT
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