Remember mp5?

90 Blood Elf Priest
7545
Mk, so a lot of priests are complaining about being underpowered. Honestly, I'm not having a problem. I think most people are doing it wrong. The average player thinks that to top meters, you need to be casting all the time, nonstop, just pumping out spells. In fact, this was even true in DS. We had so much regen by the end of the expansion that mana became a very small limiter.

Here's the deal. Welcome to the start of the expansion, you have to watch your mana. It's a precious resource. You're a priest, possibly holy. You're not supposed to spend the whole time casting. In fact, you're going to spend a lot of time standing around doing nothing. You see, the class design was based on that. Which refers back to the title.

So, remember how there used to be 2 distinct mana regen systems? Priests and druids used spirit, shamans and paladins used mp5. Mp5 was constant regen, no strings attached. Spirit was different though. The thing is, spirit only worked (the best) when you stopped casting. In raids, if you wanted mana as a priest or druid, you'd literally have to stop casting and stand there at intervals.
And the thing is, priest and druid healers were built around this system. Notice the cooldowns, the instant casts. The spec concept was built for some standing around, spirit regen.
Now I do know regen's a hell of a lot different now.

So what's my point?

The point is, druids and priests were designed to pull competitive hps by just healing when they had to. Priests would use circle of healing and prayer of mending on CD, prayer of healing and renew to fill holes. In fact, that's the way priests largely did in BWD and somewhat FL. Stand around, prayer of mending, circle of healing, renew. Blow mana on other spells only when needed.

Many priests today think that they need to race away their mana to be able to compete. The reality is, casting crazy isn't going to raise your heals by that much.

And you know what?
HPS isn't a problem unless you wipe.
Stop trying to compete. If you down the boss and the pally out metered you, then he just sniped your chance at healing. If he backed off a bit you'd have higher numbers. Big deal.

Remember, we're 4 nights into raiding. If you really think there's a major problem, it gets fixed tuesday. Patience.

Edit: spelling.
Edited by Rizzea on 10/5/2012 9:22 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7380
i agree with your post. people are just very stupid out there in wow to acknowledge.
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90 Troll Priest
10205
The things is if they can get the same results with say 3 H pally than with 2 H pally and 2 disc priest, it'd be stupid not to bench one priest to grab one more DPS. So it's no so much, "is the boss down" or no,it's "are you actually useful in these attempt or are you part of the reason the raid is wiping"?

if you look at log, it's completely dominated by monk (everyone knew that was going to happen) druid and H pally come second and we have a bit of shammy. As of right now in the top 10 of all the raid boss (10 and 25 man) there is only one priest (a holy obviously, can't have the most complex healing class be good). In a lot of case there's not even a priest in the top 100.

So yeah, there's a problem, no it's not player skill. Yeah priest should start asking for correction right now, I spent cata as a shammy and if we don't do something asap we'll be stuck at the bottom for the longest time and we'll only get buffed if there buffing all healing class.
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90 Night Elf Priest
13930
- Priests spend more mana to do less healing, and are unable to sustain their healing as well as other healers.

- Discipline Priests have clunky mechanics at war with one another, notably Spirit Shell and Archangel.

- Discipline Priests also have an overload of short CD abilities.

- Priests have the lowest burst potential; both specs are lower than every other healer's potential.

Right now, if the other healers have enough mana to consistently snipe your healing and do not have to as actively conserve and consider their mana resource, they have a distinct advantage over you.

Holy's strength in raids, historically, has been its raw power. It is not a spec with strong utility, which means its value comes in how much healing it can provide. Currently, it has less—much less—burst potential than Monks, Druids, Shaman and Paladins. Burst from Holy Priests is topping out at around 150-160k on WoL. Burst from every other class is topping out between 210 and 230k. It's also not as easily able to sustain healing during extended damage phases.

Discipline's strength in raids, historically, has been its mitigation. PW:Shield, Divine Aegis, PW:Barrier, and now Spirit Shell. In Mists of Pandaria, any attempt to preempt damage means sinking a great deal of mana into the raid. Divine Aegis stacking is no longer a viable mechanic. PW:Shield spam has been out for quite a while. Someone mentioned Rapture being capable of simultaneous multi-proccing again, but any error on your or the raids' part could easily spell disaster. PW:Barrier, as it always has, requires stacking. Spirit Shell requires 15 seconds of prep time, a situation that will not change last moment (ie: being able to nullify the damage through another mechanic) and a great deal of mana. It's also possible to act as a raid stabilizer during damage phases like Feng's fire stack AoE, but the result is less desirable as you're not as effective as you would be if you were both preempting the damage and providing raw healing during.

It's also true that people do not consider the utility of PW:Barrier as strongly as they should, but the experience I've had/analyzed thus far—and every conversation I've had with players from top guilds—has indicated that the utility provided by Disc Priests is not enough to make up for their lack of throughput. Because the mitigation we provide, with the exception of Barrier, can be tracked through logs, we know that our absorption plus our healing is in no way comparable to the healing provided by others.

It's an inherent issue with the concept of the spec. Made too powerful, Disc Priests might be capable of trivializing content before it's gone stale. Made too weak, raids are left wondering if the utility is enough to counter the lower healing capabilities.

While I agree that Sky Is Falling threads are useless, threads denouncing any attempt to convey concern are as bad—if not worse.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
15345
10/05/2012 09:19 PMPosted by Rizzea
Spirit was different though. The thing is, spirit only worked (the best) when you stopped casting. In raids, if you wanted mana as a priest or druid, you'd literally have to stop casting and stand there at intervals.


Except that now you regen the same amount of mana while you are casting as when you are not casting as long as you are in combat. I agree that people need to be smarter and be more conservative with their mana but stop casting only saves you mana it doesn't make you regen mana faster.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7545
@ Elethia:

If it is the case where you can't buff disc and other healers don't need to worry about mana conservation, than the solution is to nerf the other healers.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
5310
Disc may be fine from an hps level though it doens't seem it to me so far, but I really don't enjoy it any more. I rolled 2 other healers to try out different classes because I don't like having to worry about mana more whilst dealing with so many short cds and trying to optimize SS and AA.

OP- In desparation I have tried your method of healing, but it doesn't work for me at my gear level and with the amount of damage players are taking. I also use downtime to build stacks of evangelism. I try to heal very efficiently at all times as good habit, but I'm find myself healing so frantically to keep up with damage that mana gets used up very quickly. I can see this being problematic in a raid setting but I haven't yet tested at level 90.

Overall I'm feeling uncomfortable using my all time favorite role and spec and that saddens me. Mana issues are not as much of a concern as lack of synergy and flow. Unfortunatlely I don't see how gear is going to fix that. I could worry less about juggling cooldowns at that point, but then I'd feel like I wasn't healing to the best of my ability (and I wouldn't be).
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90 Night Elf Priest
13930
I never said that buffing Disc isn't possible. Right now, in fact, it is one of the things they should do—and there are a few ways to do it:

1. Rework the short cooldowns. Spirit Shell and Archangel are the main culprits here. They do not affect one another, and they each have a preparation period. While it's possible to build your Evangelism stacks to 4 or 5, pop Spirit Shell in preparation for a boss CD, then complete/maintain your Evangelism stacks to later pop, you're left with very little extra time with which to provide other healing. Ultimately, you're going to be left sacrificing one for the other, which should not be the case.

Keep in mind how many short cooldown spells Disc has to work with: Spirit Shell, Archangel, Holy Fire, DS/Cascade/Halo, Inner Focus, Penance, PoM, Purify (when applicable), and, more than likely, Mind Bender. That's 9 abilities with a cooldown under 1 minute that most Disc Priests will want to watch.

We also have Barrier and Pain Suppression as 3 minute, the potential for Power Infusion at 2 minutes, and Leap of Faith at 1.5.

That's all on top of the no cooldown abilities we regularly use.

2. Decrease mana cost. Right now, Spirit Shell is a huge mana sink. If a mana cost reduction were baked into it, Disc Priests would have a far more efficient way to preempt damage, allowing them to follow up with raw healing without feeling strapped for mana.

3. Increase raw healing. This is applicable to both Holy and Disc, and is particularly desirable for the level 90 abilities. Because Spirit Shell has a cap on how much it can absorb, the buff to hard numbers wouldn't have an overwhelming effect.
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