Y'Shaarj & original Well of Eternity

100 Troll Rogue
11015
These are my sources:

http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/09/26/know-your-lore-pandaria-and-the-sundering/#continued

http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/10/03/know-your-lore-the-mantid/

Basically this is me summarizing these articles. Read them yourselves if you want the full story.

*****SPOILERS*****

Y'Shaarj
- The mantid worship an Old God named Y'Shaarj (so there is more than the just the three, C'thun, Yogg-Saron, and N'zoth).
- He apparently has seven heads, so you can speculate that the box of Yogg-Saron may be referring to him.
- He was killed by the Titans, which doesn't make sense to me since I thought if the Old Gods were killed then Azeroth dies... (he is CONFIRMED dead by the way)
- His essences is the Sha, which he let loose before dying

Original Well of Eternity (THIS IS SPECULATION & THEORIES)
- Throughout Pandaria quest lines it is referenced that the waters and rivers have magical properties
- Mogu, like the Elves, evolved from the waters in the Vale of Eternal Blossoms
- Before the Sundering, the Pandaren were in traveling distance to deliver a gift to the kaldorei, indicating that Pandaria and the Well were close to one another
- The water in The Terrance of Endless Springs has the same shimmering and pulses quietly like the water under Nordrassil does
- Jinyu also originated from those waters

What I'm saying is... the water in Pandaria is the remnants of the Well of Eternity!

Not a remake of the Well like Illidan made or one created by killing a Naaru, but THE ORIGINAL. This explains the mists, it shrouded the island protecting its waters from the world (the remaining Highborne and the Burning Legion).

If this is true, and now that the mists is gone, what does this mean for the future of Azeroth?
Edited by Nøodle on 10/7/2012 1:10 PM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
11345
10/07/2012 01:09 PMPosted by Nøodle
- His essences is the Sha, which he let loose before dying


See, we all think that, but I think the Archives told us that the Old Gods were intrinsically tied to Azeroth, and if they were killed, Azeroth would fall apart and be destroyed.

But to the Titans, as seen with Algalon, we are corrupt beings that need to be destroyed. And we're not corrupt beings. We're just not "according to plan".

So I think Old Gods can be killed, it just creates an annoying nasty situation that is really annoying to control.

10/07/2012 01:09 PMPosted by Nøodle
Not a remake of the Well like Illidan made or one created by killing a Naaru, but THE ORIGINAL. This explains the mists, it shrouded the island protecting its waters from the world (the remaining Highborne and the Burning Legion).


No, because there is absolutely 0 Night Elven architecture anywhere in Pandaria. Not to mention Azshara tried to bring the Burning Legion THROUGH the Well, which lead to the Sundering.

Imagine Azeroth together again:

http://worldofmapcraft.com/

I think the Mountain ranges of KunLai used to the be eastern most part of the Mountain ranges spanning southern Kalimdor.

And the Vale used to be connected to the Uldum complex. Similar to how Wyrmrest Temple used to be connected to Ulduar.

I imagine the Well of Eternity used to be between what is now Azshara and Trisfal.

However, the part about "All rivers lead to the Vale" intrigues me. I think the Well and the Vale are the same water, but not the same Well.
Edited by Baalsamael on 10/7/2012 1:35 PM PDT
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100 Troll Rogue
11015
Yeah, that's what I said, that the Vale is the remnants of the Well, not actually the Well itself.
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100 Troll Rogue
11015
That map of Azeroth is frickin' awesome by the way.
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91 Night Elf Druid
9065
10/07/2012 01:50 PMPosted by Nøodle
Yeah, that's what I said, that the Vale is the remnants of the Well, not actually the Well itself.


I think it's more likely that the Vale is a Proto-Well.

Though, I do have my own theory involving the Well of Eternity, that it was essentially a giant lock for the Old Gods, a substance of energy that alters reality itself, thus enabling the Dark Horrors to be contained.

This would explain the Vale waters, as the "lock" needed would need to be slightly different, with a dead old god instead of living breathing Old Gods. So, basically, something to lock away it's rotting energies instead of living breathing Old Gods.

Of course, Old Gods being Old Gods, well.. Dead isn't exactly dead, as much as spawned mini horrors that infect all with rage.
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
11345
I thought the same thing Ferlion, about the Well of Eternity. But I don't think the Vale serves as a lock for Y'shaarj, seeing as how there's one in each of the Temples, and three in the Xuen Temple, of Pandaria's Celestials. I think there's something else hidden within.
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91 Night Elf Druid
9065
10/07/2012 02:19 PMPosted by Baalsamael
I thought the same thing Ferlion, about the Well of Eternity. But I don't think the Vale serves as a lock for Y'shaarj, seeing as how there's one in each of the Temples, and three in the Xuen Temple, of Pandaria's Celestials. I think there's something else hidden within.


Well, I've not got the game, so I've not seen that for myself.

Fair enough on the vale part then.
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100 Night Elf Warrior
11435
In regards to killing an Old God and the Sha, the Tribunal of the Ages tells us that Azeroth was 'Infected' with unknown "Necrophotic life forms' and that destruction of them would result in the loss of the 'Host', presumably Azeroth. It doesn't actually tell us the world will blow up.

I tend to view Y'shaarj as the reason they discovered this. They killed Y'shaarj, accedently creating the Sha, and realised that if they killed all the Old Gods it would perminantly and irreperably corrupt Azeroth. So, they imprisoned the remaining Old Gods, set wards to keep them locked up, and slapped a stop-gap bandaid on the region corrupted by Y'shaarj's death.

That bandaid was the Vale. We know, since they created the Well of Eternity, that the Titans are capable of creating fonts of awesome power. We also know that the Vale has amazing healing powers, which seem in part to be responsible for Pandaria being so warm, considering its placement on the globe, and its awe inspiring agriculture.

In my mind, the Vale is there to counteract the words of the effect which came from killing Y'shaarj, rather than it being a product of the Well of Eternity.
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
11345
10/07/2012 02:33 PMPosted by Caeledor
In regards to killing an Old God and the Sha, the Tribunal of the Ages tells us that Azeroth was 'Infected' with unknown "Necrophotic life forms' and that destruction of them would result in the loss of the 'Host', presumably Azeroth. It doesn't actually tell us the world will blow up.


Precisely. "Loss" could merely be "loss for the Titans", and something that doesn't fit into their ideal scheme of Azeroth.

10/07/2012 02:33 PMPosted by Caeledor
In my mind, the Vale is there to counteract the words of the effect which came from killing Y'shaarj, rather than it being a product of the Well of Eternity.


And why can't it be both? Why can't the Well of Eternity and the Vale of Eternal Blossoms (putting the full names side by side make it obvious) be a double seal on something? If you think about it, it makes sense. While Azshara was messing up the Well, the Sha started becoming a problem again, i.e. one of the two locks started falling apart, so the beast in question got fighty. Before the second lock could fall apart, Shaohao chose to use some mysterious magical powers to seal Pandaria far far away, thus preventing the second lock to fall apart for whatever reason.

We don't know what the Well of Eternity was for. We know:

1) Changed dark trolls into Night Elves.
2) Used as a portal for the Burning Legion.
3) Is an arcane font.
4) Might have something to do with the Old God tentacle that popped out of the Dragon Soul to backhand Deathwing.
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Elune was supposed to dwell of the depths of the Well, and Tyrande dreams of some sort of "Light" in Pandaria.

Food for thought.
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100 Night Elf Warrior
11435
If the two did for some kind of seal, perhapse the seal for the Old Gods prison (which, i admit, The War of the Ancients does indicate that the prison has something to do with the well) then the critical failure of the Well of Eternity would indicate why the Old Gods are becomming increasingly active since the Sundering.

Of course, time also explains it, if we assume the prison degrades at a set rate.

Regardless, i do feel that the Vale is primarily a way to cover the damage of killing Y'shaarj, even if it does have secondary characteristics. I think it's safe to say, however, that it's not like the Sunwell and new Well of Eternity, which were both created by moving water from the original Well. The Vale, and its effects, predate the major rise of the Night Elves, which makes it unlikely anyone was trucking the water aorund.
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
11345
Regardless, i do feel that the Vale is primarily a way to cover the damage of killing Y'shaarj, even if it does have secondary characteristics. I think it's safe to say, however, that it's not like the Sunwell and new Well of Eternity, which were both created by moving water from the original Well. The Vale, and its effects, predate the major rise of the Night Elves, which makes it unlikely anyone was trucking the water aorund.


Oh no, I'm not suggesting someone pulled an Illidan with the Vale. I'm saying that the two were directly connected, perhaps underground.
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91 Night Elf Druid
9065
Elune was supposed to dwell of the depths of the Well, and Tyrande dreams of some sort of "Light" in Pandaria.

Food for thought.


Yeah, the lights going to end up being Anduin. Blizzard isn't subtle enough to do anything else.
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
11345
On a side note: Yu'long could be a Blizzardcorruption of Yue Long, i.e. Moon Dragon.
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Elune was supposed to dwell of the depths of the Well, and Tyrande dreams of some sort of "Light" in Pandaria.

Food for thought.


Yeah, the lights going to end up being Anduin. Blizzard isn't subtle enough to do anything else.
Hasn't Anduin been searching for the same Light?

But if Blizzard decided to be subtle this time I would say the Light in Pandaria is the seventh Sha. It would be unexpected and add a certain degree of interesting complexity to the whole situation with the Sha, Y'Shaarj and Pandaria.
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Elune was supposed to dwell of the depths of the Well, and Tyrande dreams of some sort of "Light" in Pandaria.

Food for thought.


Yeah, the lights going to end up being Anduin. Blizzard isn't subtle enough to do anything else.


Not that's a bad thing, of course.
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
11345
Hasn't Anduin been searching for the same Light?

But if Blizzard decided to be subtle this time I would say the Light in Pandaria is the seventh Sha. It would be unexpected and add a certain degree of interesting complexity to the whole situation with the Sha, Y'Shaarj and Pandaria.


Sha of Love, calling it now.

Or Passion.
Edited by Baalsamael on 10/7/2012 3:09 PM PDT
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Hasn't Anduin been searching for the same Light?

But if Blizzard decided to be subtle this time I would say the Light in Pandaria is the seventh Sha. It would be unexpected and add a certain degree of interesting complexity to the whole situation with the Sha, Y'Shaarj and Pandaria.


Sha of Love, calling it now.

Or Passion.
Actually I was thinking something else entirely...

Though may I ask anyone who remembers from the questing, what exactly did each August Celestial represent?
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10/07/2012 03:11 PMPosted by Dusksworn
Though may I ask anyone who remembers from the questing, what exactly did each August Celestial represent?


I'm not sure they're supposed to "represent" something.

Thus far, I've only encountered Yu'lon, and the most you could say is that she was "Wisdom" but even that is reaching.
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10/07/2012 03:14 PMPosted by Heon
Though may I ask anyone who remembers from the questing, what exactly did each August Celestial represent?


I'm not sure they're supposed to "represent" something.

Thus far, I've only encountered Yu'lon, and the most you could say is that she was "Wisdom" but even that is reaching.
The Crane is referred to as the "Red Crane of Hope"...

And I think the Ox might be linked to courage...
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