Topic
Lordaeron belongs to the Humans
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Heh. Terrorism. Funny how you get killed by a supernatural force, raised as a soldier and released, and get called a terrorist for the act that very few even know of or witnessed. That's right. How does anyone but the folks who were there even know that Garithos and his men were slaughtered? |
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Edited by Sternbridge on 10/8/12 12:18 AM (PDT)
First impressions last. Grand Marshal Garithos: "The spell has been lifted. Is the nightmare finally over?" The transcript of their first meeting. Varimathras: "The capital city is heavily defended. Balnazaar is no fool, my lady. This battle can be won only through attrition." Another shortly before they begin their attack on the capital. He calls her an elf witch and also calls her people wretched animals. Harsh words. So Sylvanas is so thinskinned that any slight disrespect warrants murder? Rational people don't think like that. He didn't have his men slaughter any of her forces as a show of his power. He only asked for them to hold up their end of an offer they made. Is a good impression supposed to be 'here, take it all, we don't want it anymore'? He never at any point tried to hunt them down or gave any intention that he was going to. The Forsaken weren't wronged by the humans and the humans are getting their just deserts for some great deed done against them, the Forsaken made the first move and signified that they're not on our side. |
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If the alliance want's the undercity, come take it. Just watch out for the forsaken recruitment offices... er, I mean elevators.
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Edited by Vyrin on 10/8/12 1:32 AM (PDT)
Lordaeron rightfully belongs to the Alliance, the Forsaken have no right to it as they're so fundamentally different that their souls have been transformed. Saying that they're humans is like saying that an Orc is a human.
Want proof? Go and die as an undead. Note how you don't corpserun as a Human, you corpserun as a monster. Anyone saying "hurrr Lordaeron rightfully belongs to the Forsaken because the Forsaken are humans with skin conditions" does not know their lore and didn't even dedicate a modicum of thought to the subject. The level of cognitive dissonance required to believe that the Forsaken are humans is nothing short of phenomenal. And are these same people honestly arguing that somehow it was the Alliance who wronged the Forsaken? Laughable, and simply playing Warcraft 3 through to the end would tell you that it isn't so. |
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Edited by Midare on 10/8/12 1:43 AM (PDT)
I was going to make a serious post but then realized I'm too sleepy for it. But then I saw this post and made me giggle. Yes alliance! the elevators are waiting for ya!! Come and deal with them if you dare!. And Vyrin just give up...
Really, this is your argument?... It's freaking game mechanics get it right. The whole "undead are not the same humans that used to live in lordaeron" tinfoil-hat theory only shows how ignorant you are becaue in several cases when you speak to forsaken in game and do their quests they speak of their past lives. Sure... a wizard did it... right? And with this I'm going to bed. No need to argue. Lordaeron belongs to The Forsaken, was it taken in an "un-rightful" way according to you? Too bad. |
It's not gameplay mechanics just because it proves your argument wrong.
I hear that in fantasy games, people NEVER have memories or otherwise perceive the world in ways that aren't really their own, right? And in fact, when the Forsaken do so, it's already through veils of contempt. Again, no different from saying that an Orc is a human, and that people for some reason think that the Forsaken are totally humans and sympathetic and such despite the fact that A) They've never done or been ANYTHING even remotely sympathetic and B) They probably don't feel the same way to undead in other universes, be it Elder Scrolls, Night of the Living Dead, D&D, Diablo, or what have you just goes to show how much doublethink is required to hold such a farcical position. The Forsaken are not and never were humans, nor do they have anything to do with Lordaeron beyond having it on account of butchering it's inhabitants and infesting the region, preventing its people from returning. |
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Edited by Midare on 10/8/12 2:05 AM (PDT)
Not gonna bother with much more because trying to have a debate with you is the same as talking to a wall, as you keep getting proved wrong (I've seen the story forums) but you stick to your point (I have to say I envy your persistence in defending your point though... even if it's completely inaccurate). Also, I'm sleepy, but really... the game was released in 2004. Coding stuff was way different than what it is now. Do you have any knowledge about this? Apparently not. You really think back then it was easy to make the spirit look different, even if using a model already in the database. I assume that the spirit mechanic it's pretty complex as it was. But you could say "change it nao if it's not like that!!11!!"... right... they can't even implement new models but they will change the look of the forsaken's spirits because you say so... cut me some slack dude. They probably don't feel the same way to undead in other universes, be it Elder Scrolls, Night of the Living Dead, D&D, Diablo, or what have you And why are you bringing other games in to this it's beyond me really... but wow has been popular for showing a different view on overused material in the fantasy genre. Maybe the orcs being in fact a shamanistic peaceful race till they got corrupted?... so yeah I have no idea what I'm saying anymore... Just enjoy defending your point of view. No matter what the Forsaken has been recognized by blizzard as the former humans that inhabited Lordaeron, this is the core source for all of this but you say they are mistaken because you came up with some random theory you pulled from the twisting nether or somethin'. Good for you. /yawn I'm off to bed... |
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Edited by Vyrin on 10/8/12 2:19 AM (PDT)
Not gonna bother with much more because trying to have a debate with you is the same as talking to a wall, as you keep getting proved wrong (I've seen the story forums) but you stick to your point (I have to say I envy your persistence in defending your point though... even if it's completely inaccurate). Also, I'm sleepy, but really... the game was released in 2004. Coding stuff was way different than what it is now. Do you have any knowledge about this? Apparently not. You really think back then it was easy to make the spirit look different, even if using a model already in the database. I assume that the spirit mechanic it's pretty complex as it was. But you could say "change it nao if it's not like that!!11!!"... right... they can't even implement new models but they will change the look of the forsaken's spirits because you say so... cut me some slack dude. So in other words, "boo hoo, you proved me wrong, I'm going to try and handwave it in order to maintain my illusion that the terrifying husks of plague and shadow magic that are the Forsaken are actually just humans with particularly bad rashes." It's not gameplay mechanics, and you have no proof of it being so. You're wrong. Accept it and you'll sleep way better.
That's because you can't string two cogent thoughts together as evidenced by your position in the first place. Unless every single time you see an undead killed or kill an undead in a movie or video game, you then lament about how you're killing your fellow man who just have particularly bad rashes, then you're a hypocrite. What makes the Forsaken different from, say, the Skeleton King and his minions from Diablo 3, if you've played it?
Last I checked Sylvanas not only isn't the mouthpiece of Blizzard, but her own speech was debunked in her short story. |
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I remember those guys. The Forsaken betrayed and slaughtered them. |
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I'd be happy to let the Forsaken keep Lordaeron if they left the Horde. Not saying they have to Join the Alliance but being on their own. They died fighting for their city. Can't see any reason why they should leave.
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That's not really our choice. They own Lordaeron. Not us. We are Humans of Stormwind, with almost no affiliation with Lordaeron. We do not own it. They do. |
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Lordaeron belongs to the humans?
The trolls say "hi". "But the troll empire descended into barbarism, attacked the humans and high elves, and lost!" True. But the human kingdom of Lordaeron lost a war too. It was destroyed as completely as Stormwind was during the first war. The only reason "original" inhabitants remain is due to the nature of undeath. That said, if by some twist of storyline Stormwind stomps north and drives out the forsaken, the latter wouldn't have any special claim to Lordaeron that gave them any more legitimacy than the trolls. |
