Almost no Windwalker Monks on the ladders

80 Human Priest
3225
Doing a quick look over the top Battlegroups it's one thing that is hard to overlook. There are almost no windwalker monks anywhere on the ladders.

Naturally there are not going to be as many monks on the ladder because it's a new class but the monks that are on the ladder are almost exclusively Mistweaver.

On Shadowburn Battlegroup for example the first Windwalker monk team doesn't show up until #99 and they are at 197 rating lol.

Arenajunkie players are already starting to bash the spec in the monk forums, and if the rep gets out that the spec is worthless it will make it that much harder to get teams even after buffs because of trying to over come player perception that the spec is bad.
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90 Dwarf Warrior
14765
Yeah, WW doesn't really offer anything that the other melee specs (all of them) don't already bring.
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82 Pandaren Monk
1735
Mistweaver owns don't you dare bring them into this!
Edited by Eggshan on 10/9/2012 11:02 AM PDT
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90 Human Hunter
3465
What's up with the ladders anyway? Here's what Blizzard says the BG9 3s ladder is now:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/pvp/arena/bloodlust/3v3

It says the top team is around 2100 - Reckful and a bunch of others are 2400+ on that bg.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14515
honestly i think they under tuned windwalkers intentionally because of how dks were in s5.

probably a good idea, but they may have gone a bit overboard.
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80 Human Priest
3225
honestly i think they under tuned windwalkers intentionally because of how dks were in s5.

probably a good idea, but they may have gone a bit overboard.


It's far more complicated then that. Windwalkers just have far to many abilities that are terrible and were not designed well.

Example:

Disable & Leg Sweep. You can be right on top of someone and because of lag you will get "Target out of range" on disable, and many times Leg Sweep will go off, the cooldown will get used up, but the target won't get hit because they were out of range even though you were right on top of them.

Simple fix for these two abilities would be to increase the range on them 5-10 yards. These are the two main control tools for staying on top of a target, and if they are failing a large bulk of the time that is a problem.

Healing Spear cost 60 energy for a 18-20k heal at level 90. What good is spending over half your energy for a 20k heal when you have 400k hps, and people are critting for 120k? lol

The tier2 talents are horrible healing alternatives for windwalkers. I have been pushing for a windwalker exclusive glyph that makes chi-wave self only hot.

Expel Harm needs a boost in healing or a major cooldown reduction. 20k heal on a 15sec cooldown?
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90 Pandaren Monk
18100
Chi Wave needs the glyph to target the caster with heals only. I can't tell you how many times I've been questing and had chi wave bounce off to some random person nearby not in party or whatnot.

Expel harm is tricky. Its better than you make it out to be but its in an odd place. When it crits I can get as much as 90k health back, but when it doesn't it seems really low, in the 30k area or so, (38k non-crit in my current pvp gear). The issue is the duration of the CD is that after you use it, its easy to get gibbed right after. I suppose you could call this balanced in a way because I've healed from near dead to nearly full with use of EH / CW and having lots of crits, and lets face it WW will have some pretty decent crit by the final season this xpac.

WW healing from personal experience isn't so much in lacking burst but more so sustained and staying healed up. Healing Sphere is just terrible and needs a major buff there is no denying that, but things like EH can be great but need to crit to matter. In theory ZS would fill that niche of sustained healing and EH could be the burst, but ZS is so terribly low and slow for its healing. For now I'd aim for a CD reduction of EH but it could potentially end up too strong. ZS could honestly use one of Slant's old suggestions, iirc, is to triple+ the healing of it then half the duration.

Aside from survivability, burst, mastery, cleaving, and raid utility (guess that is a bit to list) WW could be really set to be a great spec. Lets just hope we see some great changes for the next patch.
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80 Human Priest
3225
Aside from survivability, burst, mastery, cleaving, and raid utility (guess that is a bit to list) WW could be really set to be a great spec. Lets just hope we see some great changes for the next patch.


Yeah I have already shelved mine until the next patch. Will work on getting my DK and Mage to from 85 to 90 now. I feel like I wasted my time investing so much time on my monk. Wasn't worthy of being my first character to 90, and I did it with no RAF cheese.
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90 Night Elf Monk
9250
not surprising. the spec just does not feel right at all when played in pvp. the mobility is really only effective in pve.
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90 Pandaren Monk
18100
That mobility is great in PvE, until you locate your FoF bind. Honestly I'm rolling a new shaman just for something different to do. I really had a lot of high hopes for this class hoping things would be improved since beta rather quickly but the deafening silence is sealing the deal. I'll raid on this toon with guild since that's the spot I claimed, but other than that he'll sit.
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80 Human Priest
3225
I don't mind that the spec is weak. When something is weak Blizzard tends to buff. The spec being weak isn't so much the problem as the mechanics of the class being woeful.

Leg Sweep - The range on this needs to be at least 8yrds, from my experience I would say 10yrds, and the cooldown needs to be 30secs OR the cooldown should not be used unless it successfully hits a target or is dodged/parried.

Jade Crackling Lighting - Who thought up this ability? It's 100% terrible. It needs a complete redesign. I am not even going to offer suggestions on how to fix it.

Spinning Fire Bloosom - The damage is ok but it should cost 30 energy instead of Chi. The reason for this is you should only be using this ability if you are being kited. You can only create Chi if you are melee range outside of expel harm which is on a 15sec cooldown.. It also needs to be targetable because you will miss with it easy if your opponent knows how to move their character or strafe..

Healing Sphehe - 19k heal for 60 energy at lvl 90? A major buff to this ability could go a LONG way to helping the spec in arena.

Disable - Again the range is to short. Needs to be 8-10 yards.

Our Interrupt (can't remember the name for some reason) - The energy cost on it is WAY to high. Why is it that most all other melee get free interrupts and we don't. At least give us a glyph option to remove the cost.

Tier 2 Talents - They are pretty much worthless for windwalkers in group play. They need to be better. Chi-Wave is decent but only in duel 1v1 situations. Anytime there are more people and it becomes worthless.

Paralyze - This is another biggie. It's a great ability but sucks because of the range. The talent that increases the range needs to be replaced with something else and it should be 20 yards baseline. If this happens you will see many arena team options open up for the spec. Leg Sweep is mandatory because of the serious defensive issues the spec has, so forcing us to choose between these two talents is fail, and 20yrs on one spell is a pretty crap talent to begin with.

There are a ton of other issues with the spec like the lack of burst damage, no real offensive cooldowns, and crappy defenses in group situations. Poor overall self healing, and no unique abilities.
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90 Dwarf Warrior
14765
10/10/2012 07:56 AMPosted by Primiez
Our Interrupt (can't remember the name for some reason)


SPEAR! HAND! STRIKE!

But yeah, Leg Sweep needs either a longer range or have a primary target so it will at least hit that.

Jade Crackling Lighting - Who thought up this ability? It's 100% terrible. It needs a complete redesign. I am not even going to offer suggestions on how to fix it.


Yeah, what use could it have???

10/10/2012 07:56 AMPosted by Primiez
You can only create Chi if you are melee range outside of expel harm which is on a 15sec cooldown


If only there was some other ability that could create Chi and range...
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90 Pandaren Monk
18100
Well lets be honest a 25% chance to generate chi is pretty terrible. If you can't reach the target, by the time you generated a chi to root him with SFB, you will have had numerous other abilities come off CD in that time.
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90 Pandaren Monk
8535
honestly i think they under tuned windwalkers intentionally because of how dks were in s5.

probably a good idea, but they may have gone a bit overboard.


I get this, but dammit i'm getting tired of reading it.
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94 Draenei Monk
15245
10/10/2012 11:55 AMPosted by Kallìk
Well lets be honest a 25% chance to generate chi is pretty terrible. If you can't reach the target, by the time you generated a chi to root him with SFB, you will have had numerous other abilities come off CD in that time.


Yeah I don't know if it would really hurt if CJL actually generated chi reliably at 100%/tick. Though the issues with SFB will remain. I don't think anyone really likes or notices the ability to skill shot it so it could really just be targetted.

Chi burst could just be the alternative to SFB on heavy range fights I guess.

I'm not entirely sure, but does expel harm's 50% damage to an enemy actually outdamage jab?
Edited by Zephel on 10/10/2012 1:02 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
18100
Yes if you get a full heal I've had EH hit for over 50k compared to jabs 20-25k-ish-ness. Honestly I really like SFB I've gotten kills with it, my only problem is if I'm about parallel with someone I've had it hook backwards and hit the person behind me or curve off and hit a pet when aiming at a hunter. I'd like it to be targeted but I also don't want to lose the root because more often than not I can land the root just fine, its just frustrating when I can't due to the previously mentioned issues.

CJL though I feel should be a decent alternative to DPS'ing when as a melee I can't reach the boss or had to get away and can't get back on target immediately, things like Feng / Will. Ranged WW dps shouldn't be viable but given that we have all the tools we need for it, it shouldn't be terrible either.
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94 Draenei Monk
15245
Yeah I feel CLJ itself is mostly fine, it just needs to be more reliable on chi generation. SFB needs to just be targetted instead of a skill shot.

Other notes for changes
-ToK should really be free, or an energy cost
-Interrupt should be cheaper, I see the intention here but we won't always have a couple chi to cover SHS's cost.
-Jab/Expel Harm damage should be looked at, it's not good design that I'm looking at using a defensive healing ability to dps with.
-Possibly the same with fort brew+ToD. Although I still wonder how easy it is to land ToD in a raid.
-possibly, TP should maybe cleave to a few targets, to alleviate ramp up of tiger power in AoE, and to make it feel like it fits in more with both rotations. Dunno if it should do more damage or just be like FoF.
-Do something with FoF, it feels very..boring.
-Why can't I spawn path of blossoms on bosses before they start in some cases? I was doing the bosses in utgarde pinnacle and I couldn't place PoBs below them before they started. Also make this ability have some more uses.
-Could we look at getting charge instead of provoke? We don't really need it after we get CJL in soloing, and iirc BrM charge taunts just like provoke.
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90 Draenei Hunter
15360
Come back sandwich.

Oh and I'd prob never play WW after playing that hot mess on beta. Like Primez has said, the whole spec just feels awkward to play. Brewmaster is fun but theres only so much you can do with tanking and keeping things fun.
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12 Pandaren Monk
8000
I am not enjoying my monk it seems to lack dps and poor survival.
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