Hunter pets dying very quickly in arena

85 Blood Elf Death Knight
1345
Completely agree, hunters have a very high skill-cap, not the faceroll pet burst obviously, but to use the entire toolkit properly requires a very skilled player. I think this is why I still see hunter qq even though they are in a great place right now, well BM anyway.
These quotes speak for themselves. Do have anything of any value to add?

You accuse hunters of QQ, yet that is exactly what you seem to be doing about hunters. Seems you have a gripe. Am I wrong?

Yes you're wrong. I don't have a vendetta against any class, not even the usual suspects of mages, spriests, hunters etc. I don't ask for nerfs to classes, and I don't really care who is considered OP. I will, however, give my opinion if I disagree with a complaint, especially when it comes from a class that I see doing quite well compared to some others. If you guys can't handle opinions contrary to your own then I'm afraid public forums are the wrong place for you to be.

Still waiting to see the value you've added to the thread. That's the only criteria for posting right? Add value that agrees with your opinion? Do i have that right?
Edited by Vule on 10/3/2012 9:05 AM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
1345
Hey bour!@#$in why so mad? Still shooting for that forum mvp eh? You totally deserve it.

Funny it wont let me spell out the mad pally name. I dont have those fancy marks for the o's. Ah well you know who you are.


This, right here, is an example of how you don't post anything constructive...I posted an entire thing in response to the OP and your posts and this is what you come back with? Seriously man...

My original post contained a valid point and I don't need to expound on it any further. I could have left it at that if others, like you, allowed people to disagree without personal attacks.
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86 Dwarf Paladin
9580
10/03/2012 08:47 AMPosted by Vule
Still waiting to see the value you've added to the thread. That's the only criteria for posting right? Add value that agrees with your opinion? Do i have that right?


Disagree all you'd like, that's fine...just explain why rather than saying

10/03/2012 07:42 AMPosted by Vule
Everyone dies if they get trained out of LoS of a healer. Amirite? Why should your easy-mode pet that ignores LoS to charge players behind pillars be unkillable by the same tactics people use to kill a player? Hmm?


No. You, I, and everyone knows you don't die as fast as a pet if they go LoS of a healer. He didn't even ask for pets to avoid the LoS aspects/tactics. You call it easy mode, but then say the following,

Playing a BM hunter actually has a high skill cap if you play it using all the tools you have. Hunters in general have a high skill cap. There are so many tools that a hunter has to use in order to be successful. Its quite different than playing a frost dk. Howling blast spam spam spam spam spam oh look killing machine proc'd I will obliterate you for 100k.

Completely agree, hunters have a very high skill-cap, not the faceroll pet burst obviously, but to use the entire toolkit properly requires a very skilled player. I think this is why I still see hunter qq even though they are in a great place right now, well BM anyway.
,
in which you contradict yourself. BM is not easy-mode as you claim - it requires the most micro-management of the three hunter specs because it is the most reliant on the pet.
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
1345
I feel like I've got my own show going here. Someone should delete this off-topic thread and then the OP should remake it in the arena forum. Hopefully nobody will have a different opinion than you so it can stay on topic of asking for buffs without any discussion.
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86 Dwarf Paladin
9580


This, right here, is an example of how you don't post anything constructive...I posted an entire thing in response to the OP and your posts and this is what you come back with? Seriously man...

My original post contained a valid point and I don't need to expound on it any further. I could have left it at that if others, like you, allowed people to disagree without personal attacks.


I just called you out on your original post point for point - care to actually counter than go onto some different rant?
Edited by Bôurbôngin on 10/3/2012 8:55 AM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
1345
Hey mad pally, I'm not going to dissect all that crap you keep posting but the only easy-mode I referred to was the pet itself and not playing a hunter, and I made that very clear in my statements. You either chose to ignore that to make an argument it or are having a reading comprehension issue. I don't care which it is. Be mad.
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
1345
Well this was a fun way to kill some time this morning. Too bad all the attacks derailed the thread though. I hope the OP (who remained civil) remakes it in the arena forum, hopefully it will be a better discussion. Have a nice day frens.
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86 Dwarf Paladin
9580
10/03/2012 08:58 AMPosted by Vule
Hey mad pally, I'm not going to dissect all that crap you keep posting but the only easy-mode I referred to was the pet itself and not playing a hunter, and I made that very clear in my statements. You either chose to ignore that to make an argument it or are having a reading comprehension issue. I don't care which it is. Be mad.


Did you miss the part where I said the pet shouldn't be train and forget? Did you miss the part where I said the pet requires a great deal of micro management on the hunters part? If you understood when someone was agreeing to a point you were making, you would have known that by now I agreed in some small aspect to you. But you don't read.

To address your belief on the subject...

10/03/2012 08:52 AMPosted by Bôurbôngin
Everyone dies if they get trained out of LoS of a healer. Amirite? Why should your easy-mode pet that ignores LoS to charge players behind pillars be unkillable by the same tactics people use to kill a player? Hmm?


And as I said I addressed it point for point....

But you wouldn't know that because, oh wait

10/03/2012 08:58 AMPosted by Vule
I'm not going to dissect all that crap you keep posting
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100 Goblin Warlock
18415
Try being mature...troll - again if you read what I said, I said this has always been the BM counter strategy and that it requires a great deal of micro management, the pets could use a slight change in survivability or receive a instant res similar to the other pet classes. Please read, it will get you far in life.


You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Also, your posts are more harassing than his posts are even close to trolling. Trolling is not the inability to post your opinion in a structured mature manner. There was nothing wrong with what he posted and everything wrong with what you said because everything you've resorted to has been demeaning and harassment. Dear god I hope they never mark someone with terrible forum etiquette as yourself as an mvp poster whatever he was ranting about.
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86 Dwarf Paladin
9580
Also, your posts are more harassing than his posts are even close to trolling. Trolling is not the inability to post your opinion in a structured mature manner. There was nothing wrong with what he posted and everything wrong with what you said because everything you've resorted to has been demeaning and harassment. Dear god I hope they never mark someone with terrible forum etiquette as yourself as an mvp poster whatever he was ranting about.


Okay...I called him a troll - if it is the incorrect (I think I've used it twice ever??? in my life) definition I apologize to the moon and back.

And if my post that specifically address the points he was making are "demeaning" because I expect and ask him to read by saying "learn to read", sue me... He openly admitted he didn't read them - I've read every single word of every single post on this thread.

To address the MVP thing...it was something I sarcastically said in another thread, which he apparently read.
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28 Orc Shaman
355
Your pet is extremely fast, does immense damage, and is capable of being completely CC immune and, with a glyph, death immune for 20 seconds at a time while putting out unstoppable burst/pressure.

And on top of that you want it to be unkillable at all other times.

What a joke.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
16385
10/03/2012 08:47 AMPosted by Vule
If you guys can't handle opinions contrary to your own then I'm afraid public forums are the wrong place for you to be.

I can but that is not what you do. Re-read your posts.

10/03/2012 08:58 AMPosted by Vule
I'm not going to dissect all that crap you keep posting


10/03/2012 08:58 AMPosted by Vule
You either chose to ignore that to make an argument it or are having a reading comprehension issue.


10/03/2012 08:47 AMPosted by Vule
Still waiting to see the value you've added to the thread.

Here you go...
I do agree that if we had better rez options, pet survivability would not be as much of an issue. Going from 10 secs to 6 secs is an improvement and is "okay" for SV and MM, but not for BM. It should definitely get an improved pet rez of some kind.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
16385
10/03/2012 09:11 AMPosted by Purebalance
Try being mature...troll - again if you read what I said, I said this has always been the BM counter strategy and that it requires a great deal of micro management, the pets could use a slight change in survivability or receive a instant res similar to the other pet classes. Please read, it will get you far in life.


You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Also, your posts are more harassing than his posts are even close to trolling. Trolling is not the inability to post your opinion in a structured mature manner. There was nothing wrong with what he posted and everything wrong with what you said because everything you've resorted to has been demeaning and harassment. Dear god I hope they never mark someone with terrible forum etiquette as yourself as an mvp poster whatever he was ranting about.

Put away your internet dictionary. Let the moderators do their jobs.

Vule's post were clearly antagonistic. Bour responded. Re-read it.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
16385
Just to clear, I have no problem with anyone saying that BM pets are too powerful right now. It is a valid opinion. But so is the OPs. Why can the 2 not be discussed in meaningful way without bickering. This back and fourth is a waste.
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86 Dwarf Paladin
9580
10/03/2012 10:00 AMPosted by Melix
Just to clear, I have no problem with anyone saying that BM pets are too powerful right now. It is a valid opinion. But so is the OPs. Why can the 2 not be discussed in meaningful way without bickering. This back and fourth is a waste.


This is where I differ from him - I can do this. If he read what I wrote he would see that I don't think it is right for hunters to just sick their pet on someone and forget about it. I agree that BM burst CAN BE too much at times. With all CDs popped and BW it is a lot of pressure + readiness...they should probably be unlinked again (readiness and BW) but the only problem was how it affected the PVE side of things. I think that the burst capability of a BM hunter needs to be tuned down - but also think that something needs to be addressed in term of survivability or rez.

I'm capable of it - but as you said when the first thing a guy says, is what he said...I have to call him out on it and I did so point for point.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
16385
One possible solution (although not ideal imo) would be to make Heart of the Phoenix a Hunter Ability and not tied to the pet.

Edit: On second thought the 10min cd would make it unuseable in arena, but you see my point. They could adjust it somehow.
Edited by Melix on 10/3/2012 10:15 AM PDT
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86 Dwarf Paladin
9580
One possible solution (although not ideal imo) would be to make Heart of the Phoenix a Hunter Ability and not tied to the pet.

Edit: On second thought the 10min cd would make it unuseable in arena, but you see my point. They could adjust it somehow.


Oh I see your point and it is the very first thing I said in regards to the OP...but someoneeeee missed it....(not you)

10/03/2012 07:55 AMPosted by Bôurbôngin
To address the OP seriously. The counter BM strategy has always been focus the pet. The LOS issue has also always been the most frustrating aspect to a hunter. When the pressure gets heavy they LOS. It requires a great level of micro management on the hunter pet (this is the skill part of a hunter that a lot of people overlook). It's annoying - are they a little soft right now? Yes I think so, they could receive some more in survivability but nothing too much. Either that or keep them at same survivability but give a baseline instant revive similar to the other classes - revive pet is simply terrible and HotP is only ferocity...no PvP will be using a ferocity talented pet.
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
1345
10/03/2012 10:00 AMPosted by Melix
Just to clear, I have no problem with anyone saying that BM pets are too powerful right now. It is a valid opinion. But so is the OPs. Why can the 2 not be discussed in meaningful way without bickering. This back and fourth is a waste.

Oh the mother loving irony of this post.

Here is the first thing you said in this thread:
"I'm not sure you know what you are talking about in regards to hunter's despite the fact that you show up in every thread with little value added."

Partly an out-right lie, and the other part..."well, that's just like, uh, your opinon, man." -the Dude

The first thing the mad pally said:
"Seems all you do is troll hunter threads"

Another lie. Followed by more attacks and straw man fallacies and then excpects serious responses like I owe anybody something. I could point it all out line by line, but unlike the pally, I think most people can understand the language and come to their own conclusions without me helping them along. You aren't smarter than everyone contrary to what your ego may tell you.

I offfered my opinion, admittedly, in a tongue-in-cheek fashion that may have been a bit inciting, but if you stop taking yourselves and your opinions so seriously you might find there was really nothing wrong with it. Check the mirror once in a while.

Someone should lock this thread. It was off-topic at the start considering this is the damage forum and it was presented in the context of arenas, and now its really spiraled out of anything of value. Too much nonsense to gloss over.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
16385
Yes, let's continue going back and fourth. It's very productive.

I think that you think that I think this is very serious. I don't. My issue is not disagreement, it's the venom that people bring to these forums. I just don't get it. I must be too sensative.

I should not have said, "...every thread" cause that is not accurate; however, the ones I have seen you in have been much the same as this one.

10/03/2012 11:05 AMPosted by Vule
Someone should lock this thread. It was off-topic at the start considering this is the damage forum and it was presented in the context of arenas, and now its really spiraled out of anything of value. Too much nonsense to gloss over.

Same as Pure... let the moderators do their jobs. He is a damage dealer posting about a damage dealing issue in the damage dealing forums. It is possible for threads to fit in multiple categories. Why does it bother you so much? You may want to take your own advice about who is taking what so seriously, because I am not upset at all.
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100 Human Hunter
11820
So what was the question I originally pulled up on google? Oh....about pet damage dealing....any answers on this?
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