WTB RESTO Stat Priority Opinions...

90 Pandaren Shaman
13770
10/03/2012 11:42 AMPosted by Haxzors
WTF! Both have been changed from 3327 to 3306 Haste Break Point for Goblins!


See this is what is killing me, everyone seems to have a different idea of what the break points are and even the trust sites continually change it seems on an almost daily basis.

At this im kinda like screw it and just picked 1 of the break points someone said and I ran with it. Going to be a while I think before we can get definitive answer.

The numbers were adjusted by 21 rating. Which is 0.049% Haste. A very, very small adjustment in the grand scheme of things.

Surely you can forgive what ultimately looks to be a tiny rounding error?
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90 Troll Shaman
6655
The numbers were adjusted by 21 rating. Which is 0.049% Haste. A very, very small adjustment in the grand scheme of things.

Surely you can forgive what ultimately looks to be a tiny rounding error?


Think the issue I was bringing up is that the tankspot numbers don't make those I found else where. Wasn't giving those who did the hard work to get those numbers a bad time, just a little unsure if those are the 100% correct numbers when I find different ones else where.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
13770
To be safe, my general approach has always been to test the tick count personally to confirm that it applies. Any time you get within a few rating of a breakpoint, I always feel most confident if I have seen the results for myself.

At the moment, that just means grouping with someone who has a 5% spell haste aura/buff, dropping HST totem and counting ticks.

This was made worse, for me personally, by the fact that EJ lists the HST breakpoint as 9 ticks, although in practice it's 10. I suppose perhaps they're not counting the initial tick as a tick? Or they miscounted? Or typo? I'm not sure, but either way it made me really want to double check my own in-game tick count before relying on it blindly.

I encourage everyone else to use the same self-confirming skepticism as well :)
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9210
While on the subject of resto stats... I'm planning on playing resto seriously for the first time. I understand the stat priority, but my question is whether or not resto has actual stat weights or if it's simply about hitting the haste breakpoint, getting enough spirit to feel comfortable, and then focusing on stats as they fall into the priority.

Mostly wondering this because I'm scratching my head on how to deal with reforge sites/addons which want stat weights to optimize everything.

PS. Which reforge site/addon would you recommend =P
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90 Goblin Shaman
8435
I hear it as Int>Spir>haste (softcap)> Mastery (50%)> crit>haste


Generally this. After getting the Haste to the soft cap (not too hard to get to Haste Rating 3041 for non-Goblins, 2589 for Goblins with the gear of today), stack Mastery over Crit over any additional Haste.


Thanks for this- I was about to ask what the haste cap was now. Does this take Ancestral Swiftness into account?
Edited by Jujubiju on 10/3/2012 5:38 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
13860
10/03/2012 11:42 AMPosted by Haxzors
WTF! Both have been changed from 3327 to 3306 Haste Break Point for Goblins!


See this is what is killing me, everyone seems to have a different idea of what the break points are and even the trust sites continually change it seems on an almost daily basis.

At this im kinda like screw it and just picked 1 of the break points someone said and I ran with it. Going to be a while I think before we can get definitive answer.

Actually, the goblin breakpoint numbers were corrected after an inconsistancy was identified with how I had calculated the AS/5% column. For some reason I'd treated haste as 1.06/1.05 rather than 1.05/1.05/1.01. I think in the initial days of calculations I'd assumed that the goblin racial & AS stacked additively, and didn't correct it once that was proved to be incorrect.

That's been the second breakpoint change made for reason using my workings, the first being the update to Healing Stream/Tide Totem after Ghostcrawler explained how they worked, and those cards have been there since mid July (although I've also changed the card layout/colours a few times)
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where are people getting this 50% mastery breakpoint from? not questioning it, i've just never heard of any such breakpoint for progression.
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90 Goblin Shaman
10345
its not really a breakpoint, more like... a suggested aiming point. Thing with mastery (and all 2ndary throughput stats really) is that they synergize well with balanced amounts of the other stats... the more haste you have, the more mastery ticks at lower health... the more crit... the better your chance of getting that nice crit at low health.

in theory right now all of the stats are probably as closely matched as they've ever been (especially 2ndary stats) and as such... to get the most out of ALL your stats, you'll want to have a modicum of each.

basically the 50% mastery is just approximately the point where you'll want to invest in crit (assuming you already put some points into haste to reach your comfortable level of hot ticks/cast times).
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90 Pandaren Shaman
11245
Stack spirit until your eyes bleed. Some of the fights are pretty long (elegon, wote) so MOAR spirit.
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90 Draenei Shaman
10075
10/09/2012 04:33 AMPosted by Harpoa
Stack spirit until your eyes bleed. Some of the fights are pretty long (elegon, wote) so MOAR spirit.
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90 Orc Shaman
14905
10/08/2012 11:15 PMPosted by Natalu
where are people getting this 50% mastery breakpoint from? not questioning it, i've just never heard of any such breakpoint for progression.


as a general rule, our mastery is delicious in progression.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12855
(Haste=3764)>Spirit>(Mastery~50%)>Crit

Basically Int from gear, reforge to haste for the additional tick on all heals, and dump the rest into Spirit.

From my xp of the first 5 bosses I can say I have never relied on Healing Wave this much. Our mana regen, imo, is nonsense.

I'll try reforging to crit vice mastery and post the logs at the end of the week. I keep seeing the theorycrafters suggesting crit for certain health percentages and especially for the 10 man format (which I raid in).
Edited by Polaski on 10/9/2012 7:03 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
11245
10/09/2012 06:56 AMPosted by Polaski
From my xp of the first 5 bosses I can say I have never relied on Healing Wave this much.


I cast 105 on WotE. Cast it, love it.
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90 Draenei Shaman
6140
Shamans without a 5% haste buff would need to get 6077 haste for the breakpoint.
Shamans that don't have neither the 5% from as, and 5% from raid buffs, would need a total of 8506 haste for the breakpoint.

Point being, get those buffs :)
Edited by Ixkillazxl on 10/9/2012 9:45 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
13770
10/09/2012 06:56 AMPosted by Polaski
(Haste=3764)>Spirit>(Mastery~50%)>Crit

Having raided last week over the 3764 haste breakpoint, I'm not convinced this is worth it at this point. I have dropped the breakpoint in favor of other throughput stats for this week, and will be comparing numbers.

Keep in mind that the breakpoint only significantly affects HST and HTT. While both are very useful and helpful, the reality is that it's an 11% buff to spells that might make up roughly ~25% of our overall healing. That's roughly a ~2.8% throughput increase...perhaps slightly less in practice, as it's increasingly likely that the last ticks of HTT could lead to overhealing.

I suspect that spending that same ~3k secondary stats in Mastery or Crit would provide an overall higher throughput.

(Yes, this only looks at extra ticks from Haste, and not the cast speed reduction...but at this point of triage, sniping isn't important and mana is at a premium, making HPM a far greater concern and limiting the value of the cast-speed reductive, in my personal opinion.)

10/09/2012 06:56 AMPosted by Polaski
I'll try reforging to crit vice mastery and post the logs at the end of the week. I keep seeing the theorycrafters suggesting crit for certain health percentages and especially for the 10 man format (which I raid in).

I'm full Spirit/Crit stacking for the coming raid week. Assuming things go smoothly, I should be posting some pretty useful numbers here on the forum this week, as well as proposing some real-world Crit/Mastery values based on my in-game experience.

So far, in normals, it's rare to see an average health level under about 78% for my heals. Some fights, on normal, have been as high as 84%. In these ranges Crit is likely still most effective, especially if you take into consideration mana savings through Resurgence.

Approaching HM's this week, though, you can expect Mastery to remain the clear Throughpuut stat. Although Crit may still be a close enough alternative, for it's secondary effects on Mana consumption.

I will keep people posted, as I am hopeful that my numbers will be meaningful and helpful to other restos here.
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90 Orc Shaman
9480
I'm going to be doing the Int=spirit > Mastery 50% > crit spec this week
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50 Human Priest
14170
As to the original post...

What is your priority, regen or throughput or a mix? Haste has the highest throughput of the secondary stats, more than mastery. If you are going for max throughput, haste is the way to go. Crit will yield the highest regen of the secondary stats, more than mastery.
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90 Draenei Shaman
8150
As to the original post...

What is your priority, regen or throughput or a mix? Haste has the highest throughput of the secondary stats, more than mastery. If you are going for max throughput, haste is the way to go. Crit will yield the highest regen of the secondary stats, more than mastery.


Yes and no... More haste adds absolutely 0 hps increase to ELW, HR and the healing totems once you're past a breakpoint. And those spells are a HUGE part of your total healing done. So haste is just a wasted stat in that regard Meanwhile, crit and mastery do provide an hps increase to those spells.

In addition, spell encounters are by and large periods of spike, followed by periods of lull. Haste does nothing for lull periods and your can swap to more mana efficient mastery/crit spells and do prep casting for the burst. It's not like icc where you're from fight start to fight end blasting out non stop haste powered casts...
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50 Human Priest
14170
Yes and no... More haste adds absolutely 0 hps increase to ELW, HR and the healing totems once you're past a breakpoint. And those spells are a HUGE part of your total healing done. So haste is just a wasted stat in that regard Meanwhile, crit and mastery do provide an hps increase to those spells.


Haste is not wasted at all. It still makes HR cast faster as well as the single target cast-time spells and CH. Are you really going to only heal with RT, ELW and healing totems? No, you're not. If you are using HR a lot, you are using CH a lot too. Haste helps both out ALWAYS. Haste also reduces the GCD (down to one second) so it helps riptide out as well.

Haste is the best stat for throughput (of secondary stats).

I'm not saying to stack haste. I sure wouldn't at this point. I am going to keep everything balanced. That seems to work the best. If mana is an issue, then I'll add more crit after I can't add more spirit. If mana is no issue, I'll add more mastery and haste. Ignoring select secondary stats is silly. The secondary throughput stats increase the value of the other secondary throughput stats as their numbers go up.
Edited by Niktesla on 10/10/2012 1:56 AM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
6880
Im the kind of healer that likes to have enough spirit for a fight. I go oom last 5% usually. Also crit being so low i dont like the rng. Just stacking up my mastery as when im not castig hw means people are really dipping low. My most used heal is hw and than we got ht and hst. Healig rain and on. All depends on stacking but its mostly that way.

So pretty much after haste breakpoint im gemming spirit and reforging into mastery.
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