Taunt nerfing? - Stone Guardian

90 Human Monk
6425
First of all, let me say that I did not tank in Cata. Yesterday me and some people I know did Mogu'Shan Vaults, just to see what it was like (not too geared yet).

At the Stone Guardian fight, I would taunt one of the Stone Guardians off the other tank, and TWO SECONDS later -- waaay before it got to me (i was 20 yards away) --- the Guardian would ran back to the other tank.

Did they nerf taunt or something? Anyone else had that problem?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14425
Pretty universally, you can't just taunt and automatically have aggro. You must also hit the mob with something to continue building the aggro, otherwise it will simply go back to the old target when the debuff wears off of the mob.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13385
A few things could have happened, depending on the other tank. If they were a DK or a Prot pally, especially before Censure was nerfed, they might have DoT'ed the crap out of that target. The DoTs keep ticking and if it takes longer than 3 seconds (the length of the fixate) to get to you, then it can be a problem.

Its really only an issue with the first handoff, as threat is high enough for it to generally not matter after that. On that fight that pull is actually pretty important to get right, and it may not be immediately obviously what the best way to pull for your group is. On the first hand off, just make sure you and the other tank are fairly close together, and perhaps even have a hunter MD or something to help. Should be a non-issue after that.

Edit - Petrus, that's only partially right or I'm misunderstanding you. The taunt provides a 3 second fixate (during which time it will ONLY go after you) but also equalizes threat with whoever was on top. So as long as the other tank doesn't touch that mob it should still go to you. The issue is if you don't have much threat and the other tank DoT'ed it up. The DoTs can easily do enough damage to pull the mob back to the originally tank.
Edited by Wrathblood on 10/4/2012 12:14 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
7075
I call that the "taunt and pray".
If you're feeling frisky, you can dual taunt. Throw one taunt, when it wears off, throw your 2nd taunt.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13385
Do Monks have two taunts? I thought only DKs do now.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14425
Petrus, that's only partially right or I'm misunderstanding you. The taunt provides a 3 second fixate (during which time it will ONLY go after you) but also equalizes threat with whoever was on top. So as long as the other tank doesn't touch that mob it should still go to you.


Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant. Since almost all non-monk tanks (except of course paladins if using SoI now that SoT got nerfed, and I am still unfamiliar with how monk tanks work) have some kind of DoT on the target, it's almost always going to go back to the previous target. I should have added to my post that taunt does not inherently generate additional threat beyond what takes you to the threat level of the other tank at the moment you taunt, so you have to keep building over the other tank's remaining DoT threat gen in order to keep the mob/boss on you after taunting.
Edited by Petrus on 10/4/2012 12:19 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
7075
10/04/2012 12:15 PMPosted by Wrathblood
Do Monks have two taunts? I thought only DKs do now.

Paladins lost their AoE taunt? :(
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14425
10/04/2012 12:19 PMPosted by Bbqsauce
Paladins lost their AoE taunt? :(


R.I.P. Righteous Defense 12/5/2006-8/28/2012

Forever in our macros
Edited by Petrus on 10/4/2012 12:21 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13385
10/04/2012 12:17 PMPosted by Petrus
Petrus, that's only partially right or I'm misunderstanding you. The taunt provides a 3 second fixate (during which time it will ONLY go after you) but also equalizes threat with whoever was on top. So as long as the other tank doesn't touch that mob it should still go to you.


Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant. Since almost all non-monk tanks (except of course paladins if using SoI now that SoT got nerfed, and I am still unfamiliar with how monk tanks work) have some kind of DoT on the target, it's almost always going to go back to the previous target. I should have added to my post that taunt does not inherently generate additional threat beyond what takes you to the threat level of the other tank at the moment you taunt, so you have to keep building over the other tank's remaining DoT threat gen in order to keep the mob/boss on you after taunting.


Ok, yeah, exactly. Typically, when I taunt something as part of a swap I try pretty hard to make sure I also Judge or AS the mob immediately after Taunting it to give me a bit of a threat lead. After a swap or perhaps two on that fight its a non-issue, but I figure its a good habit to keep up.

Also, I've taken to glyphing focused shield on that fight, not so much because of the bigger numbers (though those are nice) as to make sure I don't accidentally hit both the new mob coming to me as well as the old mob I'm sending over to the other tank.
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90 Human Monk
6425
Hmm, i am going to have to do research on what ability is the best to follow up a taunt then. We Brewmasters dont really have a ranged ability that works on bosses and that we can freely use.
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90 Tauren Paladin
8220
10/04/2012 07:03 PMPosted by Legionas
Hmm, i am going to have to do research on what ability is the best to follow up a taunt then. We Brewmasters dont really have a ranged ability that works on bosses and that we can freely use.

Throw a Dizzying Haze at them. The debuff won't affect them, but the threat still applies.
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90 Undead Death Knight
9890
Might be one of the few times you have a bona fide raiding use for crackling jade lightning...just taunt, and start melting face =D

...yeah drunken haze may work better, but not nearly as fun.
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90 Human Monk
6425
Using Righteous Defense on the other tank would be absurdly stupid on this fight anyway... did you SERIOUSLY suggest that?

It taunted THREE targets from the friendly target, and it required a friendly target to even work (it couldn't work if the mob was targeting you, or no one). If it had been available for Stone Guards, and you used it, ALL THREE of the Stone Guards would immediately aggro you and your raid would more or less wipe.
Might be one of the few times you have a bona fide raiding use for crackling jade lightning...just taunt, and start melting face =D

...yeah drunken haze may work better, but not nearly as fun.
Neither CJL nor Dizzying Haze will work THAT well for it, but that's your only real options. CJL doesn't do an initial tick of damage, so you can still lose the threat by the time it first ticks (and even after it does, you'll probably lose the threat anyway), and DH has a slight travel time.


I was under the impression that Dizzying Haze did not work on Bosses (and I am talking about the Threat portion not the Debuff, which of course does not work).

The other problem with CJL (i.e. other than it takes time for it to tick), is that it costs a lot of energy which is not always availiable. Its way too easy to lose the KoS stacks, so Brewmasters should always, in my opinion, keep as many stacks of KoS as possible at any time. So I do not consider saving energy for CJL a real option.
Edited by Legionas on 10/5/2012 8:26 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Warrior
17365
yeah, taunt's not going to be enough. i was having some scary moments as well, mostly when taunting off our DK tank (whose diseases are OP as $^&*).

for warriors, i suggest picking up the Storm Bolt talent, then use a combination of:
Taunt > Storm Bolt > Heroic Throw

to get the boss safely across the gap.
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90 Tauren Paladin
8220
10/05/2012 08:19 AMPosted by Legionas
I was under the impression that Dizzying Haze did not work on Bosses (and I am talking about the Threat portion not the Debuff, which of course does not work).

According to several people that tested it posting in a thread I read in the monk forum a few days ago, the threat is still applied (and apparently it does a lot of threat).
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15740
I wish I had an infinitely spamable aoe threat button that can go anywhere :(
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39 Worgen Warlock
0
Talent Rushing Jade Wind, profit.
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90 Human Warrior
13005
10/05/2012 02:49 PMPosted by Ðemolition
I wish I had an infinitely spamable aoe threat button that can go anywhere :(

RIP Demoralizing Shout?
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