Changes ele shams need to be pvp competitve

90 Orc Shaman
3280
Specifically changes to talents since current shaman talents are completely underwhelming especially compared to other classes who received powerful and exciting talents.

First tier:
Stone bulwark totem- A larger initial shield and also spell pushback resistance while it remains in play.

Astral Shift- usable while CCd

Second Tier: VERY IMPORTANT tier because as it is now we are helpless against melees, we need better tools to deal with them so we arent the free kill we currently are to them.
Frozen power- put on a seperate c/d than earth/fire shock.
Earthgrab - If (when) it is destroyed it stuns everyone nearby for 2 sec.
Windwalk - Also gives 50% bonus movement speed for the duration.

Third Tier:
Idk what to say about this tier. Its like take the most clunky, restrictive, and gimped buff mechanic in the game (totems) and try to make it better. But 0 x 0 is still 0 and worthless times a million is still worthless. I think this tier should be removed and 3 all new movement or spell pushback resistance oriented talents should be put in their place.

Some quick easy potential replacements I thought of is: 1) Bring in range of one of your totems gives you extra spell pushback resistance 2) flame shock gives you a large burst of speed (50%) when used but only for ~2 seconds. 3) wind sheer also knocks back the target.

Fourth & Fifth Tier:
Pretty Solid no changes

Sixth Tier:
Primal elementalist gives you one permanent pet at a time (damage adjusted accordingly)
Greater unleashed is taking a completely boring and un inspired skill and doubling it. Like I said before 0x0 is still 0 and I think they should even take out the baseline unleashed. But anyways since resto needs something and since their aoe healing is already good, I thought of something called 'rock shield'. It can go on top of earth shield (doesnt override it) but would override your water/lightning shield. And basically it is a damage absorb shield on a 10-ish second cooldown.
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I completely agree with most of this. As Enhancement I must admit I feel like I'm in a decent place, though theirs a great deal of clunky crap to deal with while pvping.

As enhancement I generally have no worries when it comes to spell push back. However I played Elemental up until MOP was live. Elemental at one point at least, didn't have to worry about to much spell push back because there armor and shield mitigated a great deal of damage..but that was in the past..long long ago in a far away place. You could take a silence or pummel or a kick and soak up the damage long enough to weasel away in ghost wolf sneak a heal off.

However that armor mitigation doesn't really mean jack !@#$ these days. Most melee classes have some form of armor pen or damage that isn't entirely physical. Most spell casters have some form of protection against spell push back. They also have far greater absorbs. I think the biggest problem with Elemental Shamans is Blizzard has a very difficult time balancing them around there armor. Which in my opinion really in most circumstances doesn't offer much protection.They have the same toughness as an Arms Warrior in Cata, without defensive stance or shield wall. Having to hard cast a heal is next to impossible against a good player so...it's a really tough situation.

Pretty much the entire reason I stopped playing Elemental was because I was sick of getting locked down, cc'd and slaughtered. Granted they're a little tougher in MOP, it still isn't enough without some heal bot sucking you off or someone peeling.

First Tier: I completely agree. Just like Shamanistic Rage, Astral Shift should be useable while stunned or cc'd. What's the point, even with a pvp trinket you're still going get locked down and focused. It needs to ready on demand, it needs to useable while you're getting chain stunned and blow up on.

Stone Bulwark is a bit fragile. I could see them increasing the absorb a bit nothing stellar like a Frost Mage or Priest, but maybe a tad more. I also agree with it reducing spell push back.

Second Tier: Frost Shock definitely needs to be separate from Flame Shock and Earth Shock. As Elemental you're either choosing to half your damage and stay alive or get wailed on and hope for lava flows procs. Earth Grab definitely could use a little more work.
Wind Walk as far as I understand was originally going to be a push back totem? like literally it was intended to push a target back away from you..maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they could work in a little bit like Spirit Walk.

Third Tier: Totemic Projection is a neat idea. It really is, but it's like the red headed step child of heroic leap. The only thing I ever really would use for it is to maybe toss a Capacitor Totem at someone..even if I were to wait for the totem to reach 2 seconds or even 1 second then toss it half the time people avoid the totem or auto attack it.
Totemic Restoration is a neat idea, that seems to be working reasonably well, it's the talent I've chosen and seems to do it's job. Especially in circumstances where people make sure to swipe my totems before they do there job.
Call of the Elements works pretty well with Elemental, at least in my opinion being able to toss a root and stun out twice in the duration of 3-5 seconds is pretty helpful. Or reusing vital totems as Resto. It doesn't feel very useful for Enhancement though.

Fourth Tier/Fifth: Agreed, they all have a place. Though I do wish Elemental Mastery was still a Elemental only talent and something else took it's place. That was a great deal of burst for the Elemental Shaman.

Though I think Conductivity could use a little buff. I'd like it to help me survive a bit more.

Sixth Tier:
I agree Primal Elementalist is boring..very boring. Probably one of the most boring talents for any level 90 class. It's simply buffing a buff that is a boring buff to begin with.

The other two talents are pretty great though. I'm actually using Elemental Blast as Enhancement at the moment, works pretty good It's tough to find the balance between offense and healing at the moment but when I have enough health getting an instant cast off with that can lead to some serious destructive force.
Edited by Wìndscar on 10/4/2012 3:57 PM PDT
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Hopefully this all gets sorted out by the time i ding 90 in a month or two :)
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90 Draenei Shaman
8695
To be honest, I agree with some of your needs but disagree with where you think they should go.

Pushback protection in a talent? No. It's ridiculous that we should have to talent for something nearly all other ranged specs get baseline. Since we don't have passive protection we should get Totem of Tranquil Mind (beta aura mastery version) back much like how Warlocks don't have a passive option so they have Unending Resolve.
We rely a lot on hardcasting Lightning Bolt (especially for mana regen which in turn heavily effects our survivability and utility), we need some sort of pushback protection baked into the spec.

I do agree with using Astral Shift while CC'd though, what would be better is if we had Elemental Warding back as a passive magic damage reduction with a barkskin-esque on use effect. Enhance has SR if Ele also had something, that fit their toolkit, I think there would be less of a need for AS to be usable while CC'd.

Totem tier is all kinds of messed up atm. It would really be nice if they "homogenized" totems some more. Make Capacitor (w/ reduced countdown), Magma, and Earthbind usable from range baseline and if totem durability was revamped as well as a cooldowns reassessed they could do a full rework of that tier (possibly moving WindWalk over and giving us 1 control and 1 mobility tier instead of 1 mix and match and 1 useless tier).

I wrote this in another thread, so before I become even rantier (if that's possible :P) I will just repost it here as it is still very relevant.

My PvP "wish list" for Elemental would be:

Most Important
- Passive magic damage reduction back
- An on-use, short cooldown, small damage mitigation ability useable while controlled
- Make Ghost Wolf an attractive option
- Shared Shock cooldowns broken, at the very least Frozen Power taking FrS off the shared cooldown
- Utility spell ranges and mana costs reevaluated

Lesser Importance
- Add in some way to make Earthquake instant, possibly increase the cooldown and make it a 100% chance to knockdown on initial tick (no knockdown on subsequent ticks)
- Give us some form of reliable mana regen, even if it requires the removal of mana regen from Thunderstorm
- Do something about our lack of glyph choices and boring glyphs


Lastly, I think the new PvP set bonus that reduces the cooldown on Thunderstorm is good but when coupled with the glyph it's too much. It's going to hold us back because any additional survivability buffs will make us borderline overpowered against melee which will result in no survivability buffs (which in turn leave us quite weak against casters).
Thunderstorm also still has the problem of being our primary mana regen tool and primary anti-melee tool in PvP.
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To be honest, I agree with some of your needs but disagree with where you think they should go.

Pushback protection in a talent? No. It's ridiculous that we should have to talent for something nearly all other ranged specs get baseline. Since we don't have passive protection we should get Totem of Tranquil Mind (beta aura mastery version) back much like how Warlocks don't have a passive option so they have Unending Resolve.
We rely a lot on hardcasting Lightning Bolt (especially for mana regen which in turn heavily effects our survivability and utility), we need some sort of pushback protection baked into the spec.

I do agree with using Astral Shift while CC'd though, what would be better is if we had Elemental Warding back as a passive magic damage reduction with a barkskin-esque on use effect. Enhance has SR if Ele also had something, that fit their toolkit, I think there would be less of a need for AS to be usable while CC'd.

Totem tier is all kinds of messed up atm. It would really be nice if they "homogenized" totems some more. Make Capacitor (w/ reduced countdown), Magma, and Earthbind usable from range baseline and if totem durability was revamped as well as a cooldowns reassessed they could do a full rework of that tier (possibly moving WindWalk over and giving us 1 control and 1 mobility tier instead of 1 mix and match and 1 useless tier).

I wrote this in another thread, so before I become even rantier (if that's possible :P) I will just repost it here as it is still very relevant.

My PvP "wish list" for Elemental would be:

Most Important
- Passive magic damage reduction back
- An on-use, short cooldown, small damage mitigation ability useable while controlled
- Make Ghost Wolf an attractive option
- Shared Shock cooldowns broken, at the very least Frozen Power taking FrS off the shared cooldown
- Utility spell ranges and mana costs reevaluated

Lesser Importance
- Add in some way to make Earthquake instant, possibly increase the cooldown and make it a 100% chance to knockdown on initial tick (no knockdown on subsequent ticks)
- Give us some form of reliable mana regen, even if it requires the removal of mana regen from Thunderstorm
- Do something about our lack of glyph choices and boring glyphs


Lastly, I think the new PvP set bonus that reduces the cooldown on Thunderstorm is good but when coupled with the glyph it's too much. It's going to hold us back because any additional survivability buffs will make us borderline overpowered against melee which will result in no survivability buffs (which in turn leave us quite weak against casters).
Thunderstorm also still has the problem of being our primary mana regen tool and primary anti-melee tool in PvP.


Agreed ;).
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90 Draenei Shaman
10970
Wait... let me get this straight... they removed our 70% pushback protection that all caster dps have? So we have no pushback protection right now unless we have a stone bulwark bubble on us? Wow... No wonder I cant finish casts when hunter pets are on me lol.
That isn't just a pvp concern, thats pretty terrible for pve dps on any fight where a boss does aoe.
Edited by Zephyria on 10/6/2012 8:44 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
4645
10/04/2012 03:07 PMPosted by Trighten
Stone bulwark totem- A larger initial shield and also spell pushback resistance while it remains in play.


or make it give shields to the entire party.correct me if i'm wrong but the point of the totems were for party/raid buffing i think they should make stone bulwark fill this same role and make astral shift last longer to even it out a bit and do something with ancestral guidance
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90 Draenei Shaman
9645
What I know for sure...

First talent tier:

-Bulwark totem needs to be undispellable. Doesn't make sense that there are two outs to killing this ability: totem dies or dispelled. Also, the suggestion that it should apply the shield to ALL part members would make sense (and be awesome, and warrant the ability being dispellable).

-Astral shift needs to last 8 seconds, instead of 6, and be on a 1.5 min cooldown, instead of 2. Let's bring up destro locks for balance concerns: imp regen, ember tap, dark regen, portal, and pact (we get astral shift OR bulwark). Yes, Blizzard actually added a survival cooldown to Elemental/Enhance (resto gets spirit link) - and made it complete garbage. Who would've guessed.
Edited by Shark on 10/6/2012 10:56 PM PDT
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90 Dwarf Shaman
6300
How to fix shamans:

make them mages/warlocks/other caster class.

There comes a point when you have to ask yourself:

"am i doing it wrong? Those other guys managing to get high ratings, what are they doing that I'm not?"

There are ways to make elemental shine. And asking for more hemogenization is not the answer.
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