Resto Druid Pvp stats priority

90 Night Elf Druid
5535
So now that Pvp power got nerfed for healing wise..what Is best stat>stat>stat>stat> For Resto Druid.. Pvp wise

Int>Spr>Pvp power>Res.. Idk input anyone ??
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90 Goblin Shaman
4120
When did it get nerfed?

Given that everyone has 40% base resil (WTF to that btw) your order looks good. Since Swiftmend on cd means 100% uptime on mastery not sure if mastery may be worth fitting in there.
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90 Night Elf Druid
2310
What I found that works best "for me" after testing gems is.

red- 80intel/160pvp

blue- 320pvp

yellow- 160pvp/160resil

The only nerf to pvp power for healing I know of was in the beta which pretty much made 1intel=1pvp power. Yes 1pt intel is slightly better than 1pt pvp not enough to matter at all though. Most important thing to remember is as the value of one increase so does the value of the other, so try and keep them even in values.

What I mean by that is the more your intellect increase the more value PvP power has for you. The more PvP power you have the higher the value of Intellect. Try and keep their values you the same for more "bang for your buck" so to speak.

I also prefer not skipping out on PvP Power since I run HotW and it is noticeable at dpsing in times I pop it for a kill.
Edited by Kurain on 10/6/2012 11:10 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
6030
I haven't made it to 90 yet... but most people are complaining about burst damage being ridiculous. I would prioritize resilience.
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90 Night Elf Druid
2310
10/06/2012 06:04 PMPosted by Clay
I haven't made it to 90 yet... but most people are complaining about burst damage being ridiculous. I would prioritize resilience.


Resil wont matter to that extent. The burst is coming from cooldown stacking pretty much. You will HAVE to CC/LoS/avoid the burst if you want a chance to live. Resilhelps against damage dont get me wrong. Resil does not help vs the big "pop my cooldowns blow you up" issues.

I'm in full honor/conquest gear (except for 2 off pieces belt/bracers and they are still contenders) I currently have 18% more damage reduction than a naked player. My PvP power is 26%. It's not worth gemming straight +resil or even resil heavy setups right now. Though I do like the pvp power/ pvp resil gems that is about as far as I would waste on gemming resil currently.
Edited by Kurain on 10/6/2012 6:56 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
6030
You sound quite sure of yourself, Kurain. I yield to your expertise.
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90 Night Elf Druid
5235
I tried gemming all resil and didn't notice much of a difference. Think it was an extra 4% damage reduction or so.

Trying out haste.
Feels really good. Better than pvp power.
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90 Worgen Druid
9735
CLAYYY /moo.

:| I honestly have yet to see this said "burst" I am barely at 49% resil and 11% pp, topping the charts on healing in bg's and tanking everything when I pop my giant "kill me now" tree form. LOVE!!!! Ibf. Such a great skill to be able to use.

Do you not consider spirit important? I always thought it would be intel> pp/resil> spirit

or Intel> Pp > Spirit> resil

Idk!!!!! I just want to be awesome, and love everyone.
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90 Night Elf Druid
2310
In BG's you won't notice the extreme burst as bad from the 99.9% of mouth breathers breaking everyone's CC, having extra heals, and most of the population using PvE rotations. Step into arena or in RBG's if you want to see the real powerhouse of burst right now.

I know several mages that from duels can take me from 100%-0 in one deep freeze duration and hunters/warriors that can rip me to shreds in 5-6 seconds flat with full hots rolling. I agree this RARELY happens in random queue BG's. In random queue BG's dps are lucky to take me below half hp with 6 of them on me.

I value Intel/PvP Power>Haste to the break point (anymore is useless)>resil/spirit

Going to reforge in a few hours when I have my completed honor set (just need bracers now). I'll post some exact numbers then. I don't advise reforging spirit and taking all the pieces with spirit you can. If you do arenas any at all (namely 2's). Healer/Dps vs Healer/Dps is pure game of CC and mana regen of the healers.

Generally first healer oom loses.

Edit: If you plan to just do random BG's for your career then min/max isn't required and you'll seldom notice a difference at all no matter what you do.

Btw here are some numbers from the lowbie gems back at 85 when tested.

With a 40 Intel gem - rejuv ticks for 5888
With a 40 pvp power gem - rejuv ticks for 5887

I'll try and get some new versions if you'd like at 90 if you really want me to sometime, but as you can see intel pulls a slight edge then. Remember the more of one stat you get the more value the other scales too as well.

Using these numbers *I* went with the +intel+pvp power red gems. They still pull more bang for your buck with 80 intel 160 pvp power than what 160 intel would unless it scales differently. Yet, it would have to scale enough to off-set the the value of the increased Intel making PvP Power more valuable as well.
Edited by Kurain on 10/6/2012 11:04 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
7665
I've been leaning away from resilience, because if someone connects on you, and by someone, I mean a warrior or BM hunter with CD's up, the extra resilience doesn't mean much since they'll do way too much damage if you don't get peeled.

You have to LOS and be on the move, and since we have a ton of escapes you need to be using those, which means in turn that you want your heals to be stronger, instead of more ability to tank damage.
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90 Tauren Druid
6030
I've been leaning away from resilience, because if someone connects on you, and by someone, I mean a warrior or BM hunter with CD's up, the extra resilience doesn't mean much since they'll do way too much damage if you don't get peeled.

You have to LOS and be on the move, and since we have a ton of escapes you need to be using those, which means in turn that you want your heals to be stronger, instead of more ability to tank damage.

The resilience is to get you to survive that half a second more, until that peel can land. Obviously, It's not a replacement for peels. It's just something that gives your peelers a little more reaction time.
Even in the fictional realm of "it doesn't matter because dps can kill you 100% of the time in an unavoidable burst rotation," it's better to be the 2nd guy to die, instead of the first. And if they can 100% you, your team should be able to do it back to them. Dying a little bit slower can give your dps the edge they need to win the ensuing 2v2.

It does matter.

You want to to get more healing power if:
you're partners are dying. you're getting caught in lots of CC... because you're forced to spam heal so much, you can't maneuver. They should help with that, by getting more resilience.

As long as the problem is you dying, resilience (or health) is the best stat for that.

If both things are problems, you get resilience... because killing a dps is more complex than killing healers and you want to force them to do the more complex task... because they're more likely to screw it up.
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90 Troll Druid
6705
I'm currently going Int > Mastery/Spirit > Power/Resil > Haste >> Crit with +160 Int Reds, +320 Spirit Blues and +320 Resil Yellows. It's working out great for me. Int is a lot better than PvP Power since the 50% PvP Power healing nerf I think.
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90 Night Elf Druid
2310
I've been leaning away from resilience, because if someone connects on you, and by someone, I mean a warrior or BM hunter with CD's up, the extra resilience doesn't mean much since they'll do way too much damage if you don't get peeled.

You have to LOS and be on the move, and since we have a ton of escapes you need to be using those, which means in turn that you want your heals to be stronger, instead of more ability to tank damage.

The resilience is to get you to survive that half a second more, until that peel can land. Obviously, It's not a replacement for peels. It's just something that gives your peelers a little more reaction time.
Even in the fictional realm of "it doesn't matter because dps can kill you 100% of the time in an unavoidable burst rotation," it's better to be the 2nd guy to die, instead of the first. And if they can 100% you, your team should be able to do it back to them. Dying a little bit slower can give your dps the edge they need to win the ensuing 2v2.

It does matter.

You want to to get more healing power if:
you're partners are dying. you're getting caught in lots of CC... because you're forced to spam heal so much, you can't maneuver. They should help with that, by getting more resilience.

As long as the problem is you dying, resilience (or health) is the best stat for that.

If both things are problems, you get resilience... because killing a dps is more complex than killing healers and you want to force them to do the more complex task... because they're more likely to screw it up.


Gemming for resil will net you about 1-2% reduced damage from a hit. Unless of course you drop all intel/pvp power gemming and go full on +320 resil in every slot.

10/07/2012 09:58 PMPosted by Bootzilla
I'm currently going Int > Mastery/Spirit > Power/Resil > Haste >> Crit with +160 Int Reds, +320 Spirit Blues and +320 Resil Yellows. It's working out great for me. Int is a lot better than PvP Power since the 50% PvP Power healing nerf I think.


Did this occur before/after the release of MoP?

Curious if this was before or after the 1/1 stat comparison was made which I posted above. If it hasn't been hot fixed since release the above formula holds true.

PvP Power increase in value the more you increase your intellect. Intellect increase in value the more you increase your PvP Power. Trying to achieve a balance of both numbers equally will get you better healing "numbers".
Edited by Kurain on 10/8/2012 12:56 AM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
6030
10/08/2012 12:48 AMPosted by Kurain
Gemming for resil will net you about 1-2% reduced damage from a hit. Unless of course you drop all intel/pvp power gemming and go full on +320 resil in every slot.

Great point. Prioritizing Power and Int gemming is probably netting you HUGE gains in performance.
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90 Tauren Druid
3540
Its wonderful that you all are taking advice from Kurain...after all he did reach 1550 in 2s and has no real pvp experience being a druid...

the way you gem in pvp is int/power gems. As it is RIGHT NOW, you even go with them on different color slots or the res/power gems.

reforging is a whole other matter. Im used to playing with 15% haste so I will probably go haste as I get my other conquest gear.
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90 Night Elf Druid
2310
Its wonderful that you all are taking advice from Kurain...after all he did reach 1550 in 2s and has no real pvp experience being a druid...

the way you gem in pvp is int/power gems. As it is RIGHT NOW, you even go with them on different color slots or the res/power gems.

reforging is a whole other matter. Im used to playing with 15% haste so I will probably go haste as I get my other conquest gear.


Can't tell if serious...>.>

I have 3 account actually. I have been playing a Druid since vanilla. I also have an DK, Warrior I PvP'd with a tad in wotlk/cata. In TBC I pvp'd with resto druid, mage, warlock, hunter. Two of which (druid and mage) I got gladiator on in season 2 and 4.

The reason I can't tell if you are serious or not is surprisingly you come off as if I'm in experienced and giving bad advice, but you just agreed with everything I been saying >.>

Edit: Before you even ask "why" I have 3 accounts- Raf leveling. This is my only current one with an active subscription and MoP at the moment, and as of "right now" I am only interested in playing this druid for this expansion.

If you skimmed over some of my previous posts as a TL:DR and didnt see that I was saying the exact same thing you are, but trying to explain "why" that is the case I totally understand.

If you felt the need to try and stroke an epeen and act all cool, because trying to shoot down people on the interwebs is what cool kids do these days!... "Hell no us cool kids don't post friendly advice!" I'll call Kurain out on his rank and ratings and act like he is a total noob (granted this account doesn't have any merit on it currently) when he is just offering to help players! Then I will follow it up by saying the exact same thing he has been saying and giving explanation too in this entire thread! That way I look like the one who knows everything, and get myself an epeen stroke...instead of just saying I agree with him.

I really hope you are the first and not the second...
Edited by Kurain on 10/8/2012 8:03 AM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
6030
Actually, I think tekneek is suggesting you forgo the socket bonus. Which, you are not.

Also, you should check your ratio of SP:PVP Power. Although in general, when you have a product of two components that the maxima is obtained by balancing them... you're already sitting on a giant pile of spell power from gear... so I would like to see the math that has told you 1:1 is optimum in that context. I'm not saying it's not.

Finally, even if you have a multi-rank 1 gladiator in here telling people: "X is the way to gem," I'm going to have to call shenanigans. No one out there has the personal sensitivity or simulation power to ascertain the real in-game effect caused by such a small number of item points. It's a really complex system. To elaborate on the complexity: there are breakpoints in playstyle. Where increasing a certain stat actually can change the way you're able to play and be successful. But the breakpoints are soft. When you first enter it, you can employ Z strategy with limited success. But by the end of the threshold you may be apply the same strategy with very high success rates. Furthermore there's never any reason to expect a player or team to employ the strategies which would rely on gear in the same way. So in reality, every team will need its own personalized psychic itemization guide. Filled with things such as: "at about X resilience, Clay will discover the ability to cast roots on enemy players. At that point, he finds he no longer needs it to survive and can reduce it."

As for resilience: there are breakpoints in survivability. Attacks are metered by the GCD, which means if you can reach certain resilience thresholds, a 2% reduction in damage taken can increase your time to live by seconds... because you lived long enough that they would require 1 more attack to kill you. Or 1 more second. Giving your team a chance to respond. Giving you a chance to recover some. That process can cascade from just 1 more second up to indefinite life... all over a handful of percentages.

In every expansion to date, there have been top healers who pick everything from full spellpower to full resilience in the opening season. So in summary:

A) You don't really know what's best.
B) Even if you did know, it doesn't really matter.
Edited by Clay on 10/8/2012 10:13 AM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
11505
A) You don't really know what's best.
B) Even if you did know, it doesn't really matter.


Pretty much. If you really want to min/max, you should have at least 2 sets of gear. One focused on survivability (resil), and the other focused on throughput. The optimal way to gem/reforge really depends on the comps you're queueing into.

In general I would advise reforging to a lot of spirit. Haste is probably the best stat after that as it affects the GCD and all of your spells, whereas Mastery and Crit only affect your healing spells.
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90 Night Elf Druid
2310
Actually, I think tekneek is suggesting you forgo the socket bonus. Which, you are not.

Also, you should check your ratio of SP:PVP Power. Although in general, when you have a product of two components that the maxima is obtained by balancing them... you're already sitting on a giant pile of spell power from gear... so I would like to see the math that has told you 1:1 is optimum in that context. I'm not saying it's not.

Finally, even if you have a multi-rank 1 gladiator in here telling people: "X is the way to gem," I'm going to have to call shenanigans. No one out there has the personal sensitivity or simulation power to ascertain the real in-game effect caused by such a small number of item points. It's a really complex system. To elaborate on the complexity: there are breakpoints in playstyle. Where increasing a certain stat actually can change the way you're able to play and be successful. But the breakpoints are soft. When you first enter it, you can employ Z strategy with limited success. But by the end of the threshold you may be apply the same strategy with very high success rates. Furthermore there's never any reason to expect a player or team to employ the strategies which would rely on gear in the same way. So in reality, every team will need its own personalized psychic itemization guide. Filled with things such as: "at about X resilience, Clay will discover the ability to cast roots on enemy players. At that point, he finds he no longer needs it to survive and can reduce it."

As for resilience: there are breakpoints in survivability. Attacks are metered by the GCD, which means if you can reach certain resilience thresholds, a 2% reduction in damage taken can increase your time to live by seconds... because you lived long enough that they would require 1 more attack to kill you. Or 1 more second. Giving your team a chance to respond. Giving you a chance to recover some. That process can cascade from just 1 more second up to indefinite life... all over a handful of percentages.

In every expansion to date, there have been top healers who pick everything from full spellpower to full resilience in the opening season. So in summary:

A) You don't really know what's best.
B) Even if you did know, it doesn't really matter.


Agree with you totally here. I was speaking from a pure "what will produce the higher numbers" point. I probably should have made that more clear earlier in the thread if you took it any other way.

My argument about why I don't see the point in resil gemming is just personal taste. If a certain player has greater success stacking every bit of resil they can get their hands on then by all means that is how they should gem.

Your post is very constructive and even though we might disagree on some things it is written in a "non-attacking" manner unlike Tekneek's post. He could have said he disagreed with me about socket bonuses, and I wouldn't have had any problems with that. Instead he had to come off as an elitist jerk (at least imo). I can tell you are trying to contribute to the thread. I appreciate you being civil on these forums. A trait usually long gone from any subjects of pvp on these forums. It all tends to be " I'm right and you're wrong my rating is higher therefore you know nothing ". Which isn't always true.

I actually been doing some research and it seems for paladins that PvP Power is always better at all times. I can't say this is true for druids due to our spells being different.

For my calculations i took a Lvl 90 Holy Paladin with the best available PvP-Gear (S12 Elite with 322 PvP Power-Trinket + 1342 PvP Power-Trinket), the best enchants and Blacksmith profession.

First i tell you the Spellpower and PvP Power values on the full enchanted gear without gems (but still with socketbonus, because we just want to find out which stat to gem and we would get the bonus anyway):

Spellpower: 18035
PvP Power: 34.01%

If we add the following gems (focus on Int):
Red: 160 Int
Blue: 80 Int + 160 PvP Power
Yellow: 80 Int + 160 Resil
Prismatic: 160 Int

Spellpower: 19475
PvP Power: 35.82%

If we add the following gems (focus on PvP Power):
Red: 80 Int + 160 PvP Power
Blue: 320 PvP Power
Yellow: 160 PvP Power + 160 Resil
Prismatic: 320 PvP Power

Spellpower: 18355
PvP Power: 44.88%

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So now we have all the stats we need to calculate the Heal-/Dmg-Output.
I used the spellvalues as listed on wowdb.

Spell:-------------Heal or Dmg general/in PvP Zone (Int):--------H o D gen./PvP Zone (PvP Power):

WoG----------------------14619.75 / 19856.54-----------------------------14070.95 / 20385.99
Holy Shock--------------25610.68 / 34784.43-----------------------------24677.72 / 35753.08
FoH-----------------------34419 / 46747.89---------------------------------33164.6 / 48048.87
Holy Radi.---------------18809.63 / 25547.24-----------------------------18053.63 / 26156.1
HL-------------------------24155.88 / 32808.52-----------------------------23276.68 / 33723.25
DL-------------------------45834.75 / 62252.76-----------------------------44165.95 / 63987.53
LoD-------------------------4442.4 / 6033.68-----------------------------------4281.12 / 6202.49

Holy Prism 1-------------43946.3 / 59687.86-------------------------------42346.94 / 61352.25
Holy Prism 2-------------29616.95 / 40225.74-----------------------------28539.51 / 41348.04

Judgment----------------11256.35 / 15288.37------------------------------10644.83 / 15422.23
Holy Shock--------------31054.38 / 42178.06------------------------------30018.38 / 43490.63
Denounce---------------27242.5 / 37000.76--------------------------------25876.1 / 37489.29
HoW----------------------33192.75 / 45082.39------------------------------31389.55 / 45377.18

As you can see, PvP Power is slightly better on every spell we got. I did a few extra calculations with buffs that give you 5% more Int, 10% more Spellpower or both together and the result is always the same: PvP Power stays better than Int even if you stack more Int/Spellpower!

But Int also gives Crit. With the focus on Int you'll get 1120 more Int which equals ~0.8% more Crit than with focusing on PvP Power. 0.8% more Crit equals 0.8% more healoutput (if i am correct here).
If you compare the healvalues on my chart you see that focusing on PvP Power will give you ~2,5% more healoutput.
~2,5 - ~0,8 = ~1.7
-> In S12 PvP Power has ~1.7% more healoutput than Int

Since my calculations are only for a full S12 Pala, i would be happy if someone whos better at math and who has more detailed informations could come up with a chart that could be used in general.


I'm actually sleeping at work right now (just woke up for lunch actually and decided to reply to this post). When I get time off hopefully tomorrow or Wed. I'll replicate this test for druids and post my healing logs as I see them.

As far as me coming off saying "X is the way, and only way to gem" I never meant it to be taken into that context. If I came off in that tone than here is my apology. On a side note there WILL be a optimum ways to gem if you are wanting to achieve min/max of healing output, survive ability, regen, etc, but I don't think you are trying to dispute that. Saying there isn't a optimal way to gem is wrong (imo). It is just deciding HOW you want to gem that is player choice.

Btw, I was never a r1 Gladiator =)

I'll try to keep in touch here off and on the next two days I'm here at work, but highly unlikely it will be that often on these forums /curses work >.<
Edited by Kurain on 10/8/2012 12:57 PM PDT
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