Okay, I'm officially tired of Varian

Don't get me wrong, he's a great character, or at least he was. But lately, it seems like Blizzard is trying to shove him down everyone's throats.

First, all the other kings are killed off. Not just the human kingdoms, but Magni as well. Then, Varian starts calling political shots in the various member states, states which supposedly have equal votes and says in all matters. It's galling hearing Aeysa call him 'our king', when he most certainly isn't.

Look, I'm okay with him being King of Stormwind. I'm okay with him being military leader of the Alliance. But when he decides to start being king of the draenei and nelves and everyone else, that's just silly.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10495
They thought we wanted a warchief, so that's what we're getting it seems.
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90 Tauren Hunter
5415
I've never liked Varian. The first time I ever met him, he declared war on the other faction when we were still fighting the Scourge. Then, I read the Shattering, where he felt justified to murder the rightful heir of Iron Forge through his own anger, then proceeded to force the dwarves into a Council.

Then Westfall left a sour taste in my mouth. The Pandaren seem to be a part of Stormwind now, seeing as they referred to him as their king. Then he had the gal to send my gnome death knight to invade a conitident to look for his son. Worst of all, while Horde questing, I discovered that he didn't care that my character at all, he said that I must scrafice myself to find Anduin and my family will be taken cared off. He's not my king! HE shouldn't be allowed to order me around like this, my Gnome is not pleased with him.
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10/03/2012 06:07 AMPosted by Gruffe
I discovered that he didn't care that my character at all, he said that I must scrafice myself to find Anduin and my family will be taken cared off.


Really? He says that?
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90 Tauren Hunter
5415
10/03/2012 06:09 AMPosted by Kolaran
Really? He says that?


Something along those lines. During Horde questing, there are human, gnomes, dwarves and night elves troopers, who look identical to those on the Skyfire before Pandaria, who drop the orders.

Hang on I'll see if I still have it
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100 Night Elf Rogue
9315
I like Varian as a character, and I'm glad to see an Alliance leader who will actually stand up to the Horde's machinations, but I join the chorus of "we don't want him as a high king". However, I have yet to see material instances of him interfering with the sovereignty of other nations (Ironforge excluded, but his son was involved.)

Now to address some of this...

I've never liked Varian. The first time I ever met him, he declared war on the other faction when we were still fighting the Scourge.


The Horde let plague manufacture go on, and before the Wrathgate incident, Alliance and Horde forces were in a state of full-on war in the Grizzly Hills (I say before because you are offered the quest to go to Grizzly Hills, in which you are attacked by Horde fliers before the Wrathgate). Varian also wasn't the only one to realize that the Horde had some responsibility in this.

Before the scourgewar, the Horde also warred with the Alliance, just not to the degree with which we are now familiar with. Thrall repeatedly engaged in violations of sovereignty in Ashenvale after the battle of Mount Hyjal, one which is referred to during the Theramore peace conference as a war. The Forsaken were also moving into Arathi without a word from Thrall. He let them do it, just as he let them manufacture the new plague.

Back before the Shattering, when I learned that there was an armistice, I often compared this exchange to FDR declaring war on Japan. Yes, FDR declared war, but war was already going on with or without his declaration. It's not entirely congruent now, knowing that there was supposed to be an armistice in place to deal with the scourge, but the Horde had continually stacked up the reasons for that declaration before it happened. It was coming. I'm just sorry to say that it took Varian to finally see it.
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10/03/2012 05:35 AMPosted by Spellestra
It's galling hearing Aeysa call him 'our king', when he most certainly isn't.


Well, he is HER King, because she swore fealty to him.

But yes. I am tired of Varian having these heart-felt, "good guy" moments. He had one at the end of The Shattering with Anduin in Ironforge. He had one at the end of his short story...with Anduin. He had one in Wolfheart, I think again with Anduin. He had one in Tides of War, again with Anduin, after they both saw Jaina went crazy and was treading the path of a loot pinata.
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90 Tauren Hunter
5415
Found it!

''By order of King Wrynn, this land is to be scoured in all haste until the White Pawn is found and returned to safety.

No expense is to be spared in this effort, including - if necessary - the blood of any subjects who find themselves serving in this foreign land.

The families of any such heroes lost in this noble endeavor will be well cared for, and the one who secures the asset may name his reward.''

Not quite what I said, but I still felt rather used by the foreign king.

10/03/2012 06:26 AMPosted by Kyalin
It was coming. I'm just sorry to say that it took Varian to finally see it.


It wasn't Varian declaring war that annoyed me, it was how he did it. I recall him, on confronting Thrall and Sylvanas, breating them about how he as a gladiator, not about anything else, which struck me as very self-centered. If he shouted "This is for Bolvar" or "Remember Lordaeron" Or "Revenge for Stormwind!" I would've been fine with it, but it was how it was done. First impressions are important, and mine left me annoyed.
Edited by Gruffe on 10/3/2012 6:45 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
11990
10/03/2012 06:42 AMPosted by Gruffe
Not quite what I said, but I still felt rather used by the foreign king.


Because apparently you dont feel used whenever any other quest giver out there asks you do impossibly hard/menial tasks. Or whenever you accept any of the quests from the call to arms board.

10/03/2012 05:35 AMPosted by Spellestra
First, all the other kings are killed off. Not just the human kingdoms, but Magni as well. Then, Varian starts calling political shots in the various member states, states which supposedly have equal votes and says in all matters. It's galling hearing Aeysa call him 'our king', when he most certainly isn't.


How exactly is he calling the shots? The most he has ever done to influence the other states was when he founded the Council of three hammers.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
9315
It wasn't Varian declaring war that annoyed me, it was how he did it. I recall him, on confronting Thrall and Sylvanas, breating them about how he as a gladiator, not about anything else, which struck me as very self-centered. If he shouted "This is for Bolvar" or "Remember Lordaeron" Or "Revenge for Stormwind!" I would've been fine with it, but it was how it was done. First impressions are important, and mine left me annoyed.


He could have said any number of things, but his experience as a gladiator is a direct attack on Thrall's style of leadership. Thrall let those arenas go on right under his nose, just as he let the plague go on, and just as he let the continued invasion of Ashenvale go on. "For Bolvar", "Remember Lordaeron", or "Revenge for Stormwind" wouldn't have really made sense, but the gladiator line makes it clear that Thrall and his negligent style of rule is ultimately responsible.
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100 Human Paladin
14640
Many people don't like Varian because he was introduced to WoW with no in-game backstory, and his first act upon doing so was to be mean to Thrall (ironically, if they'd waited till late-Cataclysm to do this, he'd have been considered a hero).
Edited by Vesran on 10/3/2012 7:29 AM PDT
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100 Human Mage
9210
10/03/2012 06:42 AMPosted by Gruffe
Not quite what I said, but I still felt rather used by the foreign king.


Seems to me you're just determined to hate him. "The future of a highly influential member-state of the Alliance is in jeopardy; the heir to the throne of Stormwind must be found! If you should die in the course of this, rest easy knowing your family will be cared for."

Its certainly a lot more than any other Alliance leader has openly promised soldiers who might die. Malfurion even goes so far as to brush off family and those who die and leave behind family (Leyara).

"Oh that Varian! I hate him, making me look out for the Alliance and promising if the worst should happen my loved ones will be taken care of! What a JERK! How dare he!"

10/03/2012 06:07 AMPosted by Gruffe
The first time I ever met him, he declared war on the other faction when we were still fighting the Scourge.


Let's see... thanks to the betrayal from within the Horde, more soldiers were lost on both sides than the rest of the war on the scourge put together. Although that in and of itself doesn't quite warrant war (to the most die-hard peacefuls), certainly the condition and evidence found within the Undercity did.

10/03/2012 06:07 AMPosted by Gruffe
Then, I read the Shattering, where he felt justified to murder the rightful heir of Iron Forge through his own anger, then proceeded to force the dwarves into a Council.


People keep bringing this up like some kind of proof that Varian is a terrible person. I wasn't aware killing Tyrants and liberating their oppressed peoples was just a terrible crime! Especially when they're long time friends and allies. Even worse! He left them with a working form of government! How terrifying! He defanged a tyrant and then left the Dwarves with a working, functional government? What a monster!

10/03/2012 06:07 AMPosted by Gruffe
Then Westfall left a sour taste in my mouth.


Yeah I could have done without the Defias fanfic questing myself. It might have been digestible if the original plan with Benedictus being behind all the Kingdom's troubles had been left in tact but... well, Thrall didn't have enough things to do so he -had- to be the one to reveal Benedictus.

10/03/2012 06:07 AMPosted by Gruffe
The Pandaren seem to be a part of Stormwind now, seeing as they referred to him as their king.


I wasn't aware they had another system of government on the Wandering Isle. I suppose they could go to Pandaria and become part of their Empire, swear fealty to their Emperor or Empress... if there was one.

10/03/2012 06:07 AMPosted by Gruffe
Then he had the gal to send my gnome death knight to invade a conitident to look for his son.


He's such a terrible person for having organized the Alliance's forces, sent aid to every other member-state except his own, and when finally his own kingdom is in jeopardy, having people secure its future monarch. Shouldn't he know Stormwind doesn't exist as an equal member-state, as worthy of receiving aid from the others? Clearly Stormwind should only be giving aid, never receiving any.

No, though, he just went and sent -every- force in the Alliance to Pandaria after his son, not a small elite force or anything, really. He clearly pulled the forces from all other fronts, -just- for his son and future heir to Stormwind. /sarcasm

10/03/2012 06:07 AMPosted by Gruffe
He's not my king! HE shouldn't be allowed to order me around like this, my Gnome is not pleased with him.


Your gnome could always decline the quest, go sit around outside Gnomeregan for the expansion, if you don't want to be part of the Alliance and, you know, support it, not just your own people.

Long story short, welcome to the Alliance where its members helps one another. If you have a problem helping your fellow Alliance, then this isn't the faction for you, go back to your Horde where its every man for themself. You seem to be so sick and tired of a man who has taken charge of the Alliance's matters while the other leaders focus on their own states, and then get hacked off when he has the temerity to even show a slight glimmer of trying to look after his own kingdom.

Good grief.
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90 Troll Rogue
9870
I was never a huge fan of him to begin with.

I really don't even know why, I just wasn't a fan.
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100 Human Mage
9210
I was never a huge fan of him to begin with.

I really don't even know why, I just wasn't a fan.


I honestly blame the comics trying to make him into the Anti-Thrall rather than his own character. How can you like an Orcish Human? It was a mistake, and its pretty sad to see Blizzard has been going through hoops to reverse that bad story decision and make him human again.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10495
I was never a huge fan of him to begin with.

I really don't even know why, I just wasn't a fan.


I honestly blame the comics trying to make him into the Anti-Thrall rather than his own character. How can you like an Orcish Human? It was a mistake, and its pretty sad to see Blizzard has been going through hoops to reverse that bad story decision and make him human again.


It bothers me most that he apparently has no connection with his murdered father and they never explained the death of his wife, whom he has yet to find another to replace her after all these years(what's the deal? Still in mourning? Doesn't care?What?).

Those are character developments we need from Varian, not just machismo.
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100 Human Warrior
16460
10/03/2012 09:36 AMPosted by Musubi
and they never explained the death of his wife,


She was hit in the head with a rock during a riot.

(what's the deal? Still in mourning? Doesn't care?What?).


For one, he probably thought she was something very special and doesn't want to replace her in his heart. Also, he has a lot on his mind right now with the war, his son missing, etc. and can't be bothered chasing tail.
Edited by Mordstreich on 10/3/2012 10:12 AM PDT
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100 Dwarf Warrior
17485
10/03/2012 10:10 AMPosted by Mordstreich
and they never explained the death of his
Collateral damage during the stonemasons' riot that preceded the rise of the Defias.
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100 Human Paladin
18505
More specifically... after the Horde razed Stormwind, it was rebuilt by the Stonemasons Guild. When the work was finished, the Stonemasons found themselves at odds with the House of Nobles. Due to the manipulations of Katrana Prestor (Onyxia), the nobles thought the masons were drastically overcharging them, while the masons thought the nobles were severely underpaying them. The masons began to riot, and Queen Tiffin was killed when a thrown rock struck her in the head. As a result, King Varian fell into a deep depression (which made him more susceptible to Onyxia's influence).

Varian remembers Tiffin fondly and has no desire to replace her. Nor does he need to: he has an heir.
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91 Night Elf Druid
9065
"Subjects?"

Is this an all stormwind fleet?
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100 Human Mage
9210
More specifically... after the Horde razed Stormwind, it was rebuilt by the Stonemasons Guild. When the work was finished, the Stonemasons found themselves at odds with the House of Nobles. Due to the manipulations of Katrana Prestor (Onyxia), the nobles thought the masons were drastically overcharging them, while the masons thought the nobles were severely underpaying them. The masons began to riot, and Queen Tiffin was killed when a thrown rock struck her in the head. As a result, King Varian fell into a deep depression (which made him more susceptible to Onyxia's influence).

Varian remembers Tiffin fondly and has no desire to replace her. Nor does he need to: he has an heir.


It should be noted Varian and Tiffin did all in their power to diffuse the situation. Varian offered to pay the Stonemason's their original sum from the Royal Coffers, but they then demanded that original sum be paid to -each- member, meaning the price skyrocketed hundreds of times over.
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