Current State Of Warriors

90 Pandaren Warrior
11505


So you mean the 25% passive damage reduction dps warriors have in protection stance isn't the problem? it's 2% health regen a second? really?

I'd suggest nerfing protection stance for dps warriors long before I'd touch second wind, but that's just me.

Recuperate was stronger than Second wind by far. 1% more healing and was usable at 100% health while Second wind is usable in most execute ranges.


SW is 3% every 1
Recoup was 3% every 3 4% w/ talent no? and it was overpowered.

bet yes, everything warriors have right now is excessive.. damage, cc and surviveability


2% after healing debuff in ranked PvP, and only below 35%.

If you cannot drop a warrior by increasing your damage by 2% then you are terrible. Keybind your cooldowns, and learn to time them. Then you'll kill a warrior.

Warriors are viable in ranked PvP.

This is a bug and is in need of dire attention, they're not supposed to stand a chance like anyone else. They're supposed to be free HKs!


hahahaha wow lol. you don't remember how powerful warriors were in BC? or how powerful they were in wolk? or how overpowered they were in S9? in BC i would die in macespec stuns before i even got a chance to do anything, in wolk i spent the entire time kiting for fear a warrior would bladestorm on my face. in S9, every time i was thrown down i would DIE.

the 2 seasons that warriors spent not being optimal in 3v3 were the outlier, not the norm.

warrior egos could use a few more seasons of being just average.


You should really check how long a person has been playing before you post such filth like this.

Mace stun was a problem but wasn't that big an issue with warriors (I'm looking at you mace spec rogues) unless they had Stunherald. (This is from someone who didn't play a warrior in BC btw) Stunherald near (or did) double the chance of a mace stun proc (Talent+Weapon itself).

Kiting for a fear in LK? okay learn to demonic portal behind a pillar and /lol as the warrior spins in circles no where near you.

Go cry about ret in a hunter thread somewhere and get your facts straight before you spew garbage onto the forums again.


Also, glyph of gag order should be looked at if pummel is still silencing without having to interrupt. Before idiots come here to say 'Warriors had it in Cata!', I will clear this up now: for pummel to silence with gag order before, the warrior had to interrupt the target. Right now, it's pointless to attempt to juke pummel since it will silence regardless. It might be a necessary evil considering how stupid pvp is getting with instant CCs, though, I'll admit.


No, it did not. Gag order has always caused a blanket silence regardless. Your facts, they are not straight.
Edited by Sphyx on 10/6/2012 5:36 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Most of the time, it's only 1.5% with Mortal Wounds debuff.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Warrior
11505
10/06/2012 05:34 PMPosted by Taunque
Most of the time, it's only 1.5% with Mortal Wounds debuff.


Still enough for people that cannot time/coordinate CDs to cry over.
Edited by Sphyx on 10/6/2012 5:37 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
16350
Kiting for a fear in LK? okay learn to demonic portal behind a pillar and /lol as the warrior spins in circles no where near you.


You misread his post. He said he was running away for fear, aka he was scared and running away because he didn't want to get Bladestormed on. Storm completely destroyed Warlocks because it would likely kill the Lock's pet, and he couldn't Feldom until after the Storm finished or the hp bug would instantly kill the second pet as well.

If you cannot drop a warrior by increasing your damage by 2% then you are terrible. Keybind your cooldowns, and learn to time them. Then you'll kill a warrior.


This shows a severe lack of understanding of how arena works. Cooldowns aren't just made available because you want to have them. Teams use them just to get pressure and force cooldowns out of the other team. If the other team outlasts them, you might not have them again if the Warrior gets low. That's why Second Wind is so powerful - it really takes two players going all out to deal with it and kill you before a healer can react or get out of CC. It also assumes that the Warrior's other partner isn't peeling any of the enemy DPS during this damage, or that the Warrior isn't reacting at all by, say, Intervening out or Leaping away or even peeling for himself.
Edited by Algus on 10/6/2012 8:18 PM PDT
Reply Quote
How is that any different from other tank-hybrids using defensive abilities? To be honest there are other classes that are also tough to take down or have stronger heals than a warrior with second wind. What you're experiencing is a perfect example of how accustomed you were to cata warriors with weak survivability. Now that we aren't easy kills, your mind interprets that as being "overpowered."
Edited by Taunque on 10/6/2012 8:22 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Human Warrior
10675
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Hjhc02akNw&list=UUq7UTrlpw-c5xbeo-UdDMSA&index=3&feature=plcp


UHHH, watch the video you linked. it wasn't connect->dead. The fight went on long enough for the super star aligning TfB 5 stack which was followed by an execute.

TfB is moronic and should be completely redesigned because people like you show that move which requires you to get 5 hits with a 30% proc chance and then hits like a truck.

OUTSIDE that idiocy, you don't see warriors able to just suddenly wreck people, I'm sorry, but you don't, and saying that you do shows your utter ignorance of the warrior class.

To reiterate - 5 stack TfB is moronic. It's so rare that it really doesn't matter, but it does happen, and when it does, someone posts THAT and says "OMFG WARRIORS HAVE TO MUCH BURST NERF NERF NERF." It's a trash move, it should be removed from the game.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
14515
10/06/2012 05:27 PMPosted by Sphyx
Kiting for a fear in LK? okay learn to demonic portal behind a pillar and /lol as the warrior spins in circles no where near you.


i'm sorry, i forget sometimes that i don't speak american. when i say 'for fear' it doesn't mean i was intending to fear, it means i was afraid to stop kiting and let a warrior catch me.

10/06/2012 05:27 PMPosted by Sphyx
Mace stun was a problem but wasn't that big an issue with warriors (I'm looking at you mace spec rogues) unless they had Stunherald. (This is from someone who didn't play a warrior in BC btw) Stunherald near (or did) double the chance of a mace stun proc (Talent+Weapon itself).


i fought a number of WLDs with stunherald in BC as MLD and pretty much the only thing we could do was kite for our lives and pray that their druid was bad at getting the warrior out of snares or we were on blades edge and i could abuse the z axis. sunherald + macespec in addition to lock/warr and druid/warr synergy was just stupid.

you are bad sphyx, and you should FEEL bad. you don't have a very good grasp of class balance in either pvp or pve and you need to stop.

warriors had two bad seasons, TWO,count them. that number is coincidentally the same number of seasons where ret has been strong. you act like its your GC given right to be the best melee in the game with all the best toys, and your memory is so short that you've forgotten all the seasons where you were strong and only remember the short period where you were crappy.

10/06/2012 05:27 PMPosted by Sphyx
No, it did not. Gag order has always caused a blanket silence regardless. Your facts, they are not straight.


warriors had to sacrifice piercing howl for it. most did not take it.
Edited by Vladja on 10/6/2012 9:53 PM PDT
Reply Quote
1 Blood Elf Rogue
0
10/06/2012 05:27 PMPosted by Sphyx
before you spew garbage onto the forums again.


Complaining about other people "spewing garbage" while looking at that first post of yours seems kind of silly.
Reply Quote
90 Undead Mage
10025
10/05/2012 08:39 AMPosted by Pierinae
Warriors were completely replaceable by rogues as melee damage dealers at the end of cata. It's pretty much a fact they weren't viable at the end of cata. They had no niche to fill when rogues did what warriors could, and more through damage, cc, mobility, and survivability. I challenge you to name one thing a warrior did better than a rogue in rated pvp at the end of cata if you believe otherwise.


Flag carrier:) you wanted one thing warrior did better then rogue in rated pvp flag carrier they were the best flag carriers in rated BG's:)
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Warrior
11505

warriors had two bad seasons, TWO,count them. that number is coincidentally the same number of seasons where ret has been strong. you act like its your GC given right to be the best melee in the game with all the best toys, and your memory is so short that you've forgotten all the seasons where you were strong and only remember the short period where you were crappy.


S5, S10, S11.

1, 2, 3.

Counting is hard?

10/06/2012 08:08 PMPosted by Algus
Kiting for a fear in LK? okay learn to demonic portal behind a pillar and /lol as the warrior spins in circles no where near you.


You misread his post. He said he was running away for fear, aka he was scared and running away because he didn't want to get Bladestormed on. Storm completely destroyed Warlocks because it would likely kill the Lock's pet, and he couldn't Feldom until after the Storm finished or the hp bug would instantly kill the second pet as well.

Mace stun was retarded, on that I'm sure everyone can agree.

If you cannot drop a warrior by increasing your damage by 2% then you are terrible. Keybind your cooldowns, and learn to time them. Then you'll kill a warrior.


This shows a severe lack of understanding of how arena works. Cooldowns aren't just made available because you want to have them. Teams use them just to get pressure and force cooldowns out of the other team. If the other team outlasts them, you might not have them again if the Warrior gets low. That's why Second Wind is so powerful - it really takes two players going all out to deal with it and kill you before a healer can react or get out of CC. It also assumes that the Warrior's other partner isn't peeling any of the enemy DPS during this damage, or that the Warrior isn't reacting at all by, say, Intervening out or Leaping away or even peeling for himself.


In a 3v3 situation it's not going to be much of an issue, so long as one of the two DPSers has a DPS CD up the warrior will drop. If you have no CDs then that's not the warrior's fault, it's yours.

In 2v2, or a situation where theres 1 dps v 1dps, second wind grows stronger. But again, if you've saved a cooldown for when the warrior is <50% HP it's not difficult to drop them. I don't know what game people are playing claiming Second Wind makes warriors "unkillable". Second Wind does NOT make a warrior unkillable, it does however make us not so easy to just tunnel down and kill.

S5, S10, and S11 all had the same issues for warriors:
Another class did everything they could better
Poor mobility
Sub-par damage
No utility to truly speak of
Extremely easy to "tunnel & win"

Okay, so now you have to save a CD for when the warrior is below 50%. They'll still drop, you just have to think more about when to use your cooldown.

10/06/2012 10:43 PMPosted by Jondy
Flag carrier:) you wanted one thing warrior did better then rogue in rated pvp flag carrier they were the best flag carriers in rated BG's:)


Touché kind sir, touché.
Edited by Sphyx on 10/6/2012 11:55 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
14515
10/06/2012 11:42 PMPosted by Sphyx
S5, S10, S11.


warriors were decent in s5. locks on the other hand were not... and even if you want to continue maintaining that s5 was bad. thats still soon to be 9 excellent seasons. thats a lot more then a number specs can claim.

10/06/2012 11:42 PMPosted by Sphyx
Mace stun was retarded, on that I'm sure everyone can agree.


and yet that response was about bladestorm, not mace spec.....

you really need to stop digging yourself deeper into this reading comprehension hole.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Druid
16400
Did we all forget warriors were #1 FC's for a long time in RBGs?
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Warrior
11505
10/07/2012 01:57 AMPosted by Feralosity
Did we all forget warriors were #1 FC's for a long time in RBGs?


Can't prot in arena.

S5, S10, S11.


warriors were decent in s5. locks on the other hand were not... and even if you want to continue maintaining that s5 was bad. thats still soon to be 9 excellent seasons. thats a lot more then a number specs can claim.

I don't call 1% rep decent. Warriors were absolute bottom of the charts in S5. Arms was broken to the point that Protection was better than it for arena, and even fury did better. Again; your facts, why are they not straight?

In S5, Death Knights, RET (hm, your spec that you cry about so much) both were very strong in 2's (at the time a competitive arena bracket that gave rewards) through massive burst. Ret saw nerfs in the season but still did well until the end with there being. Holy also did extremely well in S5 comboing with Shadowfrost & DKs almost perfectly.

Sorry, but so long as paladins have a holy spec you HAVE a viable arena spec. If arms is not doing well, a warrior can't go prot for arena. You however, can spec holy and do fine. Yes, you must regear. But so does a warrior that swaps from prot to arms, or vise versa.

10/06/2012 11:42 PMPosted by Sphyx
Mace stun was retarded, on that I'm sure everyone can agree.


and yet that response was about bladestorm, not mace spec.....

you really need to stop digging yourself deeper into this reading comprehension hole.


I'm really not seeing how this point even matters anymore. You're crying about something from three expansions ago. Get over it already.
Edited by Sphyx on 10/7/2012 6:56 AM PDT
Reply Quote
10/07/2012 01:57 AMPosted by Feralosity
Did we all forget warriors were #1 FC's for a long time in RBGs?


And so it is fixed for MoP (hopefully). I want all tanks to be viable carriers. But then isn't it only fair that warriors become good for arenas again? Yet here we are in this thread, which is lobbying for reduced survivability.

The truth is that warrior survivability was abnormally low during cata and now some of that has been restored in exchange for reduced mobility (Intercept removed, dispels on cooldown). But players now have this perception that warriors are overpowered because they were so accustomed to warriors being easy kills. Complaining about warriors makes no sense when blood dks are just as tough and do more damage than prot.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
16350
In a 3v3 situation it's not going to be much of an issue, so long as one of the two DPSers has a DPS CD up the warrior will drop. If you have no CDs then that's not the warrior's fault, it's yours.


Again, cooldown usage and flow of the game will often leave you without a major cooldown (the kind that forces reactions such as healer trinket, Wall, Bubble, etc) when the Warrior is at lower hp. Second Wind extends that period to unreasonable lengths because of how much healing it "bursts" rapidly - unless of course you're, say, a Mage and can just burst right through it. Changing its tick time to 2 or 3 seconds would tone that down to a reasonable level without making the ability useless (I say useless in as much of a sarcastic tone as possible because you don't even "use" it.)

S5, S10, and S11 all had the same issues for warriors:
Another class did everything they could better
Poor mobility
Sub-par damage
No utility to truly speak of
Extremely easy to "tunnel & win"

Okay, so now you have to save a CD for when the warrior is below 50%. They'll still drop, you just have to think more about when to use your cooldown.


S5 was awful for Warriors, no doubt about it. That doesn't excuse Warriors being ridiculous at any time.

S10 didn't get bad for Warriors until much later in the season - WLS was still arguably one of the best comps in the game until, maybe, halfway or longer through the season. That was an issue of Warriors being outscaled by other melee DPS both in survivability and in damage, and the Warrior class just being innately weaker in the caster control department, particularly compared to DK or Rogue.

S11 we've already agreed was a bad time for Warriors. Doesn't excuse future imbalances.

Like I've said before, I think Warriors are pretty close to balanced right now and only need a few small changes. Defensive Stance probably could be brought down to 10-15% reduction for Arms/Fury, Second Wind's tick period could be doubled to 2 seconds (maybe 3 if they really hate Warriors) and at the very least, Skull Banner and Recklessness need to not be usable at the same time. The synergy between those two abilities is what really makes the burst insane, but being able to stack Avatar + Berserker Rage + trinket + racials on top makes it mongo.

But players now have this perception that warriors are overpowered because they were so accustomed to warriors being easy kills


You know, I've heard this argument so many times over the years, the most notable being 3.0 Ret at the end of BC - "People just aren't used to having to actually pay attention vs Rets, since we're actually not a free kill now. Plus, all the years of being bad has just made the players in the class better."
Edited by Algus on 10/7/2012 7:12 AM PDT
Reply Quote
The difference is that there are other classes that can also be tough to kill or have more effective healing but the only class that is attracting attention is the one that didn't have that same survivability during Cata.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Warrior
11505
10/07/2012 07:09 AMPosted by Algus
In a 3v3 situation it's not going to be much of an issue, so long as one of the two DPSers has a DPS CD up the warrior will drop. If you have no CDs then that's not the warrior's fault, it's yours.


Again, cooldown usage and flow of the game will often leave you without a major cooldown (the kind that forces reactions such as healer trinket, Wall, Bubble, etc) when the Warrior is at lower hp. Second Wind extends that period to unreasonable lengths because of how much healing it "bursts" rapidly - unless of course you're, say, a Mage and can just burst right through it. Changing its tick time to 2 or 3 seconds would tone that down to a reasonable level without making the ability useless (I say useless in as much of a sarcastic tone as possible because you don't even "use" it.)


I'm still failing to see how this is bad play on the warrior's part at all; if anything the opposing team should be punished for forgetting about second wind. SW doesn't really burst healing, the split second you hit =<34.9999...% 3% HP is restored every second (There is an instant tick the moment the SW buff comes up). Again, if you see a warrior on the enemy team just remember to save a cooldown.

SW doesn't save me from being tunneled down, I drop about as quick as in cata. But in Second wind i can at least get an ability off before I die.


S10 didn't get bad for Warriors until much later in the season - WLS was still arguably one of the best comps in the game until, maybe, halfway or longer through the season. That was an issue of Warriors being outscaled by other melee DPS both in survivability and in damage, and the Warrior class just being innately weaker in the caster control department, particularly compared to DK or Rogue.


There were no changes other than warrior nerfs applied when going into S11. S10 warrior rep was as bad as S11.

But players now have this perception that warriors are overpowered because they were so accustomed to warriors being easy kills


You know, I've heard this argument so many times over the years, the most notable being 3.0 Ret at the end of BC - "People just aren't used to having to actually pay attention vs Rets, since we're actually not a free kill now. Plus, all the years of being bad has just made the players in the class better."


While it isn't a very strong argument it does have some roots in truth. I remember in BC while playing my hunter if I came across a ret I never really had problems just kiting them to death. Freedom? Arcane Shot. Running towards me? Concussive Shot, traps, wing clip. Intimidation->BW /lol

I remember shortly after getting the last piece of my Merciless Welfare set killing a ret that way out geared me. I remember him having mostly S3 armor and the axe off teron (which at the time meant something) so I assume he wasn't that terrible of a player.
When 3.0 hit said ret paladin rocked me over and over and over on isle. It was frustrating at first but it felt better when I did kill him knowing I had worked for it. To me it seems like a similar situation with current warriors.

Cata warriors were pathetic, and MoP warriors put the war in warrior.
Edited by Sphyx on 10/7/2012 8:40 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Undead Rogue
13680
10/06/2012 05:34 PMPosted by Taunque
Most of the time, it's only 1.5% with Mortal Wounds debuff.

Mortal Wounds debuff is 25%, not 50%. So 2.25%/sec.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]