Why are fistweavers having mana issues?

90 Human Monk
8880
I read about this SO MUCH on these forums.

I go in heroics or even raids, I fistweave for a bit my mana over that course I'm fistweaving drops about 5k maybe...just maybe 10k at most...

I mean honestly how are you people losing mana that fast when fistweaving? Your jabbing then spending your chi appropriately right? 2 stacks of mana tea restores 24k+ mana. I just fail to see how the concept is hard...
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90 Blood Elf Monk
4935
I have an idea.

How about creating a guide to fistweaving. Then, instead of bashing others, you're helping the few that will read and listen. You're still getting the "L2P" message across, but in a more constructive way.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
17050
Fistweaving isn't even a thing. Don't know why people insist on it!
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90 Pandaren Monk
6340
Judging by my own performance, I believe it's because I'm trying to DPS the boss and let healing do its work, but the real key is to only use skills when the party actually needs the healing. Keep Tiger's Palm and Blackout Kick buffs up, let Auto-Attack do the work.

This doesn't feel right though, in my opinion. It might feel better if Jab's power and mana cost were lowered. Perhaps Tiger Palm's damage as well, and Blackout Kick could be the main heavy-hitter.
Edited by Daiyuu on 10/6/2012 4:21 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Monk
17050
Tiger's Palm buff is essentially useless.
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90 Human Monk
8880
I have an idea.

How about creating a guide to fistweaving. Then, instead of bashing others, you're helping the few that will read and listen. You're still getting the "L2P" message across, but in a more constructive way.


Don't have the dedication to keep up on a guide here.

But I did simply state the instructions. It should be part of the mistweaving guide anyways, I haven't checked myself.

10/06/2012 04:24 PMPosted by Mist
Tiger's Palm buff is essentially useless.


I can agree with some of it, but if I get a spare moment I try to keep it built/up if I can. Free surging mist is very nice to have
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90 Pandaren Monk
7500
10/06/2012 03:54 PMPosted by Mist
Fistweaving isn't even a thing. Don't know why people insist on it!

Mist I love everything you post, but what's your reasoning behind this? I'm honestly curious. I started mixing up ranged and fistweaving yesterday as opposed to solely healing from range and the difference was night and day. I have more chi and mana tea to work with, and feel like I use less mana. I'm not trying to get all over you or anything, I'm really just curious what your stance on this is.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
17050
Talking about fistweaving as if it's something separate from another healing style is misleading. Blizzard attempted to design the class as a class that could strictly DPS heal or strictly heal-heal. Thus you get terms like fistweaving.

The reality is that there is one healing style. You heal from melee while keeping serpent's zeal up. That's it. If you can't be in melee, you have tools to handle that. Everything about monk, to play at the highest level, is mixture of our entire tool-kit. Everything in the kit has a use on every fight.

That is my reasoning. I feel like people neglect half of the toolkit when they start talking about fistweaving and rangedweaving and all of this stuff. Leads to bad play.
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90 Pandaren Monk
11615
Talking about fistweaving as if it's something separate from another healing style is misleading. Blizzard attempted to design the class as a class that could strictly DPS heal or strictly heal-heal. Thus you get terms like fistweaving.

The reality is that there is one healing style. You heal from melee while keeping serpent's zeal up. That's it. If you can't be in melee, you have tools to handle that. Everything about monk, to play at the highest level, is mixture of our entire tool-kit. Everything in the kit has a use on every fight.

That is my reasoning. I feel like people neglect half of the toolkit when they start talking about fistweaving and rangedweaving and all of this stuff. Leads to bad play.


Yeah, that's my take too. Well said. The best mistweavers will heal with the best tool in a given moment, and won't create artifical separations between melee and ranged, as though it were a viable option. Mistweavers seem meant to, well, weave in and out of melee as needed, healing all the while.
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90 Pandaren Monk
6340
I've heard good points made for Fistweaving, Mistweaving, both interchangeably.

In all, I'll do what I enjoy, and I'll do my best at it.
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80 Blood Elf Death Knight
4170
because jab costs 9k mana and does basically no healing. youd need copious amounts of spirit to be able to even half !@# a pure fistweaving play style, which i do think should be possible, and healing wise i think it actually is (at least for heroics). it's fun, it just can't be maintained without a billion spirit.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
17050
^ That is wrong.
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90 Human Monk
8880
10/06/2012 09:00 PMPosted by Mist
^ That is wrong.


This

The main reason you jab is not for the amount of healing it puts out, is for the chi.

Power strikes, 2 chi every 20 sec for 9k mana. Its the best value your gonna get for chi besides soothing mist but soothing is 25% chance.

Sometimes I do it when I need guranteed chi without any need for rng. Like a moment where this chi has to come now or never.
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90 Pandaren Monk
9015
Ok, since you all are on the topic, I will ask here.

How do I even melee heal when tanks are rushing in, pulling a lot of trash and by the time I get into melee range with them, they have taken so much damage that I can not melee (Not strong enough) heal them up.

So I am stuck ranging healing to keep them up.

I want to heal at high level so I am leveling as healing spec to better know my toon.

Is this just a level thing?

I dont have any issues with mana... but I am assuming it is just because I have most heirloom gear.

TLDR > Does melee healing get better/easier with higher level? I am real interested in a change of pace from standard range healing.

thanks,
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90 Blood Elf Monk
11050
@kungpao:

You run to the mobs faster than them. You've got roll, use it. Keep up in pace with them. If they're taking a burst amount of damage, then respond. If you need a mana break, let them know before they pull.
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90 Pandaren Monk
9015
Roll,

Thanks for the help.. Mana is not an issue with me atm.

But if I go to mobs faster then them, wouldn't I be pulling aggro and pissing the tank off?

Another issue is, after a fight I end up standing around healing everyone up, while that is happening, the tank is running ahead pulling more... I am hoping that this is just do to over anxious tanks... they seem to want to pull the whole dungeon...

just trying to find a happy medium... guess I just need more practice.

thanks again,
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90 Pandaren Monk
12500
In response to Kungpao's question (ie, lvl 30ish content)

If tanks pull like crazy (and many will), you're mostly going to need to use your ranged skills, at least until you get SCK at lvl 46.

Please note that while intuitively, many people see SCK as a *melee* ability, its functionality for Mistweavers is not in fact tied to hitting a hostile target. You merely need to be within range of a group of friendly targets in order to heal those friendly targets while SCK'ing. Yes, there's the added benefit that if you *are* dps'ing a hostile target at the same time, you're putting some dps in on the target - but the heals are not being generated because of your dps in this case.

In the meantime - just practice your melee-range positioning/instincts for melee-range danger as best you can, whether you're using melee abilities or casting. So long as you always have an "escape route" planned (ie, know which directions it's safe to Roll from your melee position) in case melee-range becomes dangerous, it's always best for you to be standing right in there. It might well be the most important training you can work on.

@ your most recent response, which you posted while I was typing the first part of this -

Watch for the mobs to start pulling to the tank, and then Roll to them even if you beat the tank. He's already got the aggro. They won't pay any attention to you.

re: healing dps'ers up while the tank runs off again -

Tell the dps'ers "As long as we stay with the tank, you'll be fine. I'm sticking to him like glue. Just keep running until we catch up to him and we can AoE the mobs down. If you stop to kill mobs who are chasing the tank, you'll fall behind, you'll get aggro from hitting them, I won't have LoS on you, and you may die."

Sounds kinda... draconian... but that's how I levelled from 15 - 87. Educating dps'ers who thought they had to cut down each mob one at a time when ion fact the mobs would follow the tank to kingdom come if they just left the things alone is how I survived ;)
Edited by Meditation on 10/7/2012 1:22 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
5850
Like somebody mentioned; the biggest part why people go OOM with fistweaving is there hitting heals when heals aren't needed. about all you should be hitting at least every second GCD is a jab to get chi or Blackout kick to upkeep Serpent Zeal.

You are not out to get anywhere on the dps charts; you are there to heal.

the biggest part I am having trouble with personally is the size of the toolkit that I have availble.

it's big enough that I had to put Fistweaving on a Page by itself and mistweaving on another.
Quickly switching from one to the other using Q/E (I use a razer to actually use the abilites)

and then I have a 3rd page that is accessable from either by holding shift (my page for CD's)

Yea. I'm probally wasting a GCD each time I switch between the two.

On that note; I wonder if I can make a weak aura that works off of which page I have active...kinda a screen reminder if I am currently in fistweaving mode or Mistweaving mode.

Edit: Surprisingly; I have yet to need to insist people to use my Balls. they seem to be grabbing them as they proc. (Mistweavers Mastery is healing spheres from healing)
Edited by Drunkenmist on 10/7/2012 2:59 AM PDT
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90 Human Monk
10240
Talking about fistweaving as if it's something separate from another healing style is misleading. Blizzard attempted to design the class as a class that could strictly DPS heal or strictly heal-heal. Thus you get terms like fistweaving.

The reality is that there is one healing style. You heal from melee while keeping serpent's zeal up. That's it. If you can't be in melee, you have tools to handle that. Everything about monk, to play at the highest level, is mixture of our entire tool-kit. Everything in the kit has a use on every fight.

That is my reasoning. I feel like people neglect half of the toolkit when they start talking about fistweaving and rangedweaving and all of this stuff. Leads to bad play.


This needs to be in the sticky.
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90 Pandaren Monk
9015
Med,

Thanks for the feedback... much appreciated!!
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