Thing you dont want to hear healing Pugs 10

90 Orc Shaman
11830
I like healers they do a great job but im torn on this as a tank i always respec before i enter the instance i mean you have like 30seconds + to do it when the que pops. What it comes down to is who's time is more important yours or the groups?

Its really 4 v 1 on this issue. Its like saying its your $15 a month but our combined $60. Same thing with time its your 10 seconds to respec and 10 seconds to drink but its our combined 80 seconds of sitting around waiting on you. Would the group like it if i showed up as a dps then told them to wait while i respeced to tank changed gear, seals, and drank to full mana.... the answer is no.

Simply put if you are considerate and show respect to your fellow party members you swap specs before entering the instance. Now i always check healer mana and will wait if needed but still as a common courtesy to the group swap before you enter.

On the issue of healing ques being a couple of minutes often when the que window pops it will repop even if a dps misses the que so by respecing you're not hurting anyone.


So if I understand you correctly,
-swapping spec and drinking while "enter dungeon" button is up, perfectly fine
-swapping spec and drinking once in the instance, not okay
despite the fact that the rest of the group would still have to wait the same amount of time either way?

respeced to tank changed gear, seals, and drank to full mana

Spec swap is five seconds. Gear, most of us that swap frequently use equipment sets, and even if you don't it's not exactly a labor-intensive process to swap. Seal is one global, again not a laborious thing. And as for "drinking to full mana" as Prot, that takes MAYBE five seconds with a level90 water or Pearl Milk Tea. And by the way, tanks do this ALL THE TIME in randoms.
Edited by Mahanik on 12/14/2012 2:54 AM PST
90 Orc Shaman
16280
12/14/2012 01:43 AMPosted by Zorosblade
Would the group like it if i showed up as a dps then told them to wait while i respeced to tank changed gear, seals, and drank to full mana.... the answer is no.


Actually, most people wouldn't mind. I think you're vastly under-estimating the patience that people have in LFD. Contrary to popular belief, LFD isn't the cesspool of humanity that most people have come to expect. 99% of the players I've come into contact with in LFD are kind, generous, and thoughtful players that want to get a dungeon done with the least amount of problems possible. Throwing a fit over a simple re-spec is one way to piss the other person off, potentially leading to problems later on in the instance.

It's been said that the worst person to have in your group is a healer that doesn't care if you live or die. Chances are, if you give me tons of crap about a 20 second swap to Resto, I'm more than likely going to make this run as painful and as expensive as I can for you and you alone. Yes, I will become that 1% and yes, I am that petty and that vindictive. Oh, you're going to kick me? That's fine. I'll find a new group fast and you'll still have repair bills.
Edited by Songs on 12/14/2012 3:00 AM PST
90 Blood Elf Priest
6590
It's been said that the worst person to have in your group is a healer that doesn't care if you live or die. Chances are, if you give me tons of crap about a 20 second swap to Resto, I'm more than likely going to make this run as painful and as expensive as I can for you and you alone. Yes, I will become that 1% and yes, I am that petty and that vindictive. Oh, you're going to kick me? That's fine. I'll find a new group fast and you'll still have repair bills.


I've gone entire instances without using 1 heal on a tank that made me angry. Is it harder on my mana? Yes. Does it make me feel warm and fuzzy inside to watch them die over and over and over and over and over? Hellz yes.
100 Night Elf Druid
6355
12/13/2012 04:01 PMPosted by Skeezle
I may be doing my dailies when a queue pops (can't change specs in combat). I may be flying across Pandaria (can't change spec in mid-air).


I think tanks aren't familiar with the concept of doing something else while you wait for queue to pop because tanks don't wait for queues to pop. At least on my server they're pretty much on perpetual CtA, or if not that, at least insta-queue without the bonus goodies.

Of course, you could finish your current fight, get to a safe place, change specs and *then* accept queue, but that would be kinda slow too. Although it might explain why in my last queue the healer took a while to accept -- I just figured non-tanks sometimes went afk while queuing because it might take them so long to pop.
100 Dwarf Priest
14265
This has been done to death I think but there are lots of good reasons for not changing spec till you're actually in the dungeon. Here's one:

I spent the first month of MoP pretty much flying from rare spawn to rare spawn trying to get the achievement and then farming some of them for their items. I can't tell you how many times I had a queue pop, I hit accept and then the tank or a dps declines and I'm back in line. I'm not going to land, switch spec, drink up, hit accept, lose the group, switch spec, drink up and take off again just to do it all again in fifteen seconds. Once I know I'm actually in a group I'll spend the time and resources to switch over.
90 Draenei Priest
11815
Logged in and saw a satchel in the queue, huzzah! Got an in progress Brewery after the first boss, what else is new. The tank leaves, the druid dies because I have no idea where he is.

Yadda yadda yadda... I'm top DPS the rest of the encounter. As the healer. Oh satchels how you hate me.
90 Dwarf Paladin
13705
I wasn't healing, I was tanking a heroic. I really had to work my cool downs and self heals. I mean, yeah, tanking is so much more active but I thought I was gonna die a lot.

At the end of the dungeon, I said, "God, I'm not normally this squishy. I dunno what's wrong."

Healer: "You're in Holy Gear."

Omg. I tanked a Dungeon in Spirit Plate. "OMG - You knew and didn't tell me?"

Healer: "I finally wasn't bored."

:P
90 Blood Elf Priest
6590
I wasn't healing, I was tanking a heroic. I really had to work my cool downs and self heals. I mean, yeah, tanking is so much more active but I thought I was gonna die a lot.

At the end of the dungeon, I said, "God, I'm not normally this squishy. I dunno what's wrong."

Healer: "You're in Holy Gear."

Omg. I tanked a Dungeon in Spirit Plate. "OMG - You knew and didn't tell me?"

Healer: "I finally wasn't bored."

:P


You'd be surprised how much healers are willing to heal through if the tank isn't an arsehat.
It's a fun little challenge.
100 Goblin Priest
20335
I've been leveling a mistweaver monk lately - started sending her through dungeons. Easy enough to heal for the most part, but Gnomer brings out the idiot in people. People jump (without parachutes) after arsepulling a mob upstairs, so I have to kill it, cause if I jump he's running around and bringing friends. Combine that with people dropping to sub-30% health from falling, and pulling every mob down there. No deaths, but still~

Then people hanging out in the cave that caves in - lost two people to that, cause the warnings weren't enough.

Got into a Scarlet Halls group with a tank who didn't believe in Righteous Fury. He sat in the fire on the 'shields' bit, then bubbled so we all had agg on the mobs at the end. 3 of us died, and he epeened in chat about how he 'pwned'. Called him out on his bubble, and he and the warrior starting arguing. Tank ended up needing on agi mail, and raged when we pointed out it probably wasn't an ideal upgrade, given that we had two hunters (I know they can't wear mail until 40 - it's just, if he's the sort to need on it then, he'd probably need when others could use it, too)

I mean, we got through it, and for once, the group wasn't silent. But still. FUN.

(also someone needs to teach brewmasters where their Guard key is)
90 Draenei Priest
12110
Let me preface this by saying that my current main healer is a Paladin, and in addition I have an 85 Druid, 85 Shaman, a 42 Monk, and of course this 90 Priest,
Regarding the issue of changing spec before entering a dungeon or not:

If your healer is a Priest, you need to be aware that unlike every other class that can heal, Priests do not get the +400% passive mana thing. When a Priest changes spec, he drops to ZERO mana; all the other healers when they switch spec are so close to full they can forgo drinking and be ready to heal instantly.

So yes, if your healer is a Priest, him taking the time to spec change after zoning in, is most definitely more important than the time of the other 4 players in the group because we have to endure much more downtime than the other healers when switch specs. Keep that in mind when you're ready to GOGOGOGOGOGO. And if you feel your time is so precious you cannot wait for the spec change, also be ready to accept the consequences if your impatience causes a wipe.

On the subject of what I don't want to hear in PUGs:

Anyone who upon zoning in saying any variation of "Come on and pull GOGOGO I have a date in 20 minutes/just put a pizza in the oven/homework to do/etc etc ad nauseam." If you don't have time to complete a dungeon, please don't bother queuing in the first place.
90 Worgen Druid
13540
I'm usually doing dailies in Feral while waiting on a queue (unless satchel is up, in which I'll sit and wait to make sure the satchel still is when it pops).

Going from Feral to Resto leaves me with around 90% mana, which I find delightful.
90 Orc Death Knight
tys
9350
Logged in and saw a satchel in the queue, huzzah! Got an in progress Brewery after the first boss, what else is new. The tank leaves, the druid dies because I have no idea where he is.

Yadda yadda yadda... I'm top DPS the rest of the encounter. As the healer. Oh satchels how you hate me.


Yeah dps seems to be pretty awful in some of the end game dungeons. In many cases, people are doing dps more appropriate for Wrath ICC 25 gear than say, 460+ gear found in dungeons.



You'd be surprised how much healers are willing to heal through if the tank isn't an arsehat.
It's a fun little challenge.


Lol. That said, it's probably expected. There are inevitably going to be inexperienced tanks, tanks that are undergeared, or that are doing the dungeon for the first time (or all 3). I suppose it's the attitude that counts.
90 Blood Elf Priest
11770
12/16/2012 06:49 AMPosted by Mazzil
(also someone needs to teach brewmasters where their Guard key is)


Pretty much yes to all of what you said, but especially this.

I've grown to dread monk tanks lately because most don't seem to be aware of any of their mitigation/survival abilities.

It's cool if they're waiting for vengeance to build up to use guard, since it scales and all, but the ones who don't use it, period? Or expel harm, or elusive brew, etc.? No thank you.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
15510
I found a new way to die in LFR this week.

Was running the 2nd half of Vaults (I still need a belt :() and we were doing Spirit Kings. During Meng the Demented's Maddening shout, a brilliant mage decided to use impact to spread combustion.

My mind boggled at that. I mean I get it's LFR and people are not the brightest bulbs in the closet but impact on a single target fight where you're leaving dots on mced people? That just boggles my mind.
81 Draenei Warrior
10170
gonna need u to calm that s.hit down. starting to make too much sense.

edit: i guess i have more of a dps/tank mindset as opposed to the common forgiving mentality of most healers i read about here. i'll give you a few chances to fix stupid mistakes, but the moment you say one dumbs.hit remark to me about my healing and i'm relentless in calling ur faults out to everyone. i'm no world-class player, and i don't expect to play with that caliber (especially in randoms); i'm not going to be an a.sshat and just berate your lack of dps/tanking skills until you say something stupid. after that, u deserve everything i have to say about you. that's my opinion, anyways.


I was reading this and it made me realize something: I am a lot nicer towards jerky players when I heal then if I'm tanking.

Tanking wise: you're going to get your face eaten if you constantly run ahead and pull. I'll sit down and golf clap for you in those very rare occasions you carry it to new levels and extremes.

If you refuse to take off your pet's taunt I will start letting them die. I am not here to engage in a taunting war with your pet. Boss fights where I need to actually position the boss (i.e. boss puts giant cloud of bad stuff at feet that kill DPS) will be seeing the very quick death of your pet at the start.

If you insist you are the tank, I'll step back and let you be the tank. That includes the healer.

I don't take lip from anyone. In groups where I hear whatever whiny "It's taking two seconds slower then I want it too and I want to pull all mobs at once but I wont roll a tank because I'm a coward" I tell them to knock that !@#$ off - albeit in a polite manner.

I will kick low DPS without hesitation if it's holding up the group/hampering progress.

I will kick healers if they are in the wrong gear and it's holding up the group/hampering progress. I will kick them also if they want to run around as feral and DPS while in the role of a healer and people are dying.

As a healer: I put up with all this stuff. Plus:

- Standing in stupid, even when asking them to move nicely.

- Having to explain that there is just some stupid I can't heal from and then feeling like I have to apologize for their deaths.

- Putting up with tanks in wrong spec/gear who are hampering the group. I've had groups where I pick one of the DPS and heal them as the tank with good results because the tank is so bad off.

I'm starting to think when I get into my healing specs I also put the sign "Doormat" across my chest. Though I don't take abuse or allow others in my groups to be abused, whether or not where strangers or friends.
81 Draenei Warrior
10170
I like healers they do a great job but im torn on this as a tank i always respec before i enter the instance i mean you have like 30seconds + to do it when the que pops. What it comes down to is who's time is more important yours or the groups?


And btw way - this kind of thinking is just absurd.

It takes less then 60 seconds for someone to respec and get mana back (plus toss their gear on while they drink). That's it.

People zone in at different rates, I tend to be one of the first but I'll still end up with tanks that zone in first and just sprint off down the hallway.

People want to collect quest, change gear, get buffs up, food/stones traded etc.

We aren't in a situation where we must finish this instance or the server will blow. You aren't zoning into challenge modes. Just a regular old 5 man, normal or heroic that will be exactly the same if you wait for the healer to re-spec instead of just rushing off.

I'm starting to seriously think that people who can't wait for something like this, or wait for some to grab a quest at the start, or to grab a quest item while sprinting through should not be allowed to group with others. This is going beyond ridiculous and running into stuff like this makes grouping even less fun and overly stressful.
90 Blood Elf Priest
8180
"This is gonna be a fast run k guys?" Anytime I see this, I know its gonna be bad...And it usually is. :P

Just recently I had gotten my MW monk to the cata dungeons. I ended up in the Stonecore with a tank I had run with quite a few times before while leveling, I remembered him and knew that he wasn't bad at all. As soon as we zoned in a really mouthy Shaman started complaining to the tank, "Omg your shoulders suck, you know they're only 1-80 now right?" Tank pretty much brushed it off, I guess they had just gotten some from a quest and hadn't equipped them yet. Even without the shoulders, they were fine.

Then he starts with me, "Heals, what is up with your trinkets? ilvl is only 55, come on!" I've healed through all of the cata dungeons just fine on all my toons without wasting a ton of gold on trinkets that will soon be replaced. I've never had a random dps inspect me only to complain before, all I could think to say was, "Umm, I'll replace them when a better one drops >.>, I heal fine without them, what's the problem?" All I got was a, "k" and he dropped the group. The only time I ever inspect people is when there's an obvious problem. I will never inspect people just so I can complain. The run was very smooth, and we all lived happily ever after.
The only problem was what the Healer said after wiping....

"Sorry, that was my fault - I fell asleep because you're so boring to heal."[/quote]

i get that on my disc priest. such a boring job. tell that kind of person, next time, "go run around jumping in circles."
that is what I do to avoid falling asleep lol
100 Goblin Priest
20335
I figured I'd start gearing my Holidin. Grabbed pvp blues (cause they were actually upgrades - 450 blues with spirit compared to 419 greens with questionable stats) - reforged what I could to spirit, and queued with two guildies (DPSers).

Got into Temple of the Jade Serpent (heroic). We had a Pally tank who insisted on huuuuge pulls. The trash all the way from the start to Wise Mari, in a group where no one knows what 'stay out of the blue' means is a bit painful when I'm not exactly decked in epics, and the tank's ability to hold aggro was questionable. We got through it slowly, but even as we were looting, Speedy was already off pulling the trash from the other side, down to the Scroll boss - holding aggro on about 40% of it. Guess who had agg from the rest, via wings/divine light spam, trying to keep her sorry !@# up? We actually managed to wipe. She threw some random insult to our guild for whatever reason - I pointed out that my gear wasn't exactly stellar, and smaller pulls would actually end up being faster.

We went on - got to the room full of little Sha. The ones who leave purple on the ground, and debuff people. Now, from the first pull, it was clear that staying out of fire is really hard. So of course she pulled the whole room :D Got through it, and I finally had a chance to sit and drink. Otherwise, it was pretty uneventful, but sheeesh, what's the rush?

--

Next run, we got Niuzao Temple. Now, the last time I ran it, we got to the 3rd boss, where we wiped multiple times cause the tank's health was dropping like a rock, and bombing the shield was too hard for people. So I was a bit wary.

This tank was amazing. Blood DK, took basically no damage from anything. Kept Bone Shield up where he could, used IBF/AMS to mitigate more damage. When the adds spawned, I stuck by him and he grabbed agg. And didn't fall over. DPS bombed the shield, tank didn't even get below 70% health.

--

Funny how varied runs can be.
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