Guardian Druid Stats

90 Night Elf Druid
15860
12/05/2012 05:18 PMPosted by Arielle
Guardians don't have a "soft cap" for Expertise.


This is splitting hairs, you can still aim for 7.5% exp [and hit] if for no other reason than to make sure FF hits. Well that and you can push dodges off the table at 7.5% exp.

Surely a majority of people realize what someone means when they talk about the "exp cap/soft cap" vs the hard cap right? It's not like it's changed in years, as tanks we can usually grab (or at least aim for) exp so our specials aren't dodged, but they'll still be parried unless you seek out the 5000~ expertise or whatever the new "hardcap" to avoid being parried is.

EDIT: I'm not really disagreeing with you or anything, since technically exp all the way up to 15% is beneficial for bears insofar as it means every time you hit mangle, it will land and you'll get rage; but aiming for 15% right off the bat is usually unnecessary if not excessive; so when someone asks for a generic stat priority suggesting 7.5% hit/exp (a familiar concept for many melee dps) is fine. It certainly beats rambling on and telling someone that it all depends on them and what they feel comfortable with.
Edited by Zheet on 12/5/2012 9:54 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
12/05/2012 09:47 PMPosted by Zheet
Surely a majority of people realize what someone means when they talk about the "exp cap/soft cap" vs the hard cap right?
If there's something I've learned, it's that people quite often do not understand the terms they are using.

It also implies a decrease in value after a certain point before the actual cap, which for Guardians, is completely false.
Edited by Arielle on 12/5/2012 9:54 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
15860
12/05/2012 09:53 PMPosted by Arielle
It also implies a decrease in value after a certain point before the actual cap, which for Guardians, is completely false.


Yeah, I apologize for not making that clear.

Been reading up on Guardians, I sort of switched to Feral early mop and stayed that way but I've been getting the itch to tank again 'full time' (as it were) so I've been delving into all the info I can find and it's interesting crit is actally viable; always thought stacking agility was kind of boring.

I also feel somewhat vindicated in regards to hit/exp (I always tried to hit the dodge cap pre-mists, even though it wasn't necessary, heh).
Edited by Zheet on 12/5/2012 9:59 PM PST
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90 Draenei Paladin
13095
12/05/2012 09:53 PMPosted by Arielle
Surely a majority of people realize what someone means when they talk about the "exp cap/soft cap" vs the hard cap right?
If there's something I've learned, it's that people quite often do not understand the terms they are using.

It also implies a decrease in value after a certain point before the actual cap, which for Guardians, is completely false.


I guess technically, 7.5% expertise is what you would need on tank swap fights where you might be attacking from behind the boss for a period of time.

We can call it the "who cares? you have no vengeance..." cap.
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90 Night Elf Druid
5485
12/05/2012 09:47 PMPosted by Zheet
This is splitting hairs, you can still aim for 7.5% exp [and hit] if for no other reason than to make sure FF hits. Well that and you can push dodges off the table at 7.5% exp.


Sure, but why stop at a point where your mangles are still being parried? That's not just frustrating, it's performance impacting.

At my ilvl (currently mid 440s iirc -- I don't count the ilvl the game says I could have if I equipped the highest level piece in each slot without regard to whether it's agi or int, because that would be a very silly way to gear that would not perform well in any spec), I think it's just plain impossible to full cap hit and exp (I have almost everything reforged that way already). But it still seems useful to come as close as I can so I have the most reliable abilities I can get, compared to a few percent more passive dodge that I can't control when or whether it goes off. I dunno, it's not like I'm getting into cutting edge content at this ilvl anyway.

12/06/2012 04:37 AMPosted by Tailias
We can call it the "who cares? you have no vengeance..." cap.


Well, I guess it would keep your TaC mauls from being dodged (and since you are behind, they won't be parried). That might help your co-tank a bit. But I don't think TaC was really designed to have a large impact in that kind of situation, because it would be unbalanced compared to tanks that can't apply a debuff to mitigate the other tank's damage. (What's the formula for the amount reduced, anyway? Does it depend on AP and Vengeance?)

If you really think TaC is a big deal, you probably want it to land when you're tanking, too, in which case you're back to trying for full cap exp.
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90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
12/06/2012 05:22 AMPosted by Calonderiel
(What's the formula for the amount reduced, anyway? Does it depend on AP and Vengeance?)
Vengeance or Stamina.

12/06/2012 05:22 AMPosted by Calonderiel
If you really think TaC is a big deal, you probably want it to land when you're tanking, too
Not right now you don't.
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90 Draenei Paladin
13095
Pardon my ignorance, but does your reply mean that TaC procs regardless of whether your Maul connects or not?
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90 Night Elf Druid
14985
12/06/2012 07:50 AMPosted by Tailias
Pardon my ignorance, but does your reply mean that TaC procs regardless of whether your Maul connects or not?


it means maul still costs rage, and as such still directly competes with better survival skills (savage defense and frenzied regen). so while actively tanking most bears *shouldn't* be mauling unless SD is on cd, no need for a heal, and rage bar is/ nearly full which does not occur very often. at this point in time the so-called buff to maul primarily only helps our co-tank because we cannot use it for ourselves often enough to matter without taking survivability loss.
Edited by Lilywind on 12/6/2012 9:24 AM PST
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90 Undead Warrior
11850
This is all quite interesting, I'll be leveling my 85 druid soon and am deciding between int and agility as his path.

I am definitely more interested in tanking than moonkin/healing but truthfully there is just a greater need for casters on my server right now as far as pugs are concerned.

It's quite refreshing that druids at the base are still Stack Agility -> win.

Quick question, why is everyone here using straight crit gems instead of agi/crit? I thought agility crit provided + AP puts the oranges over the yellows.
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90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
12/06/2012 09:46 AMPosted by Theodorr
It's quite refreshing that druids at the base are still Stack Agility -> win.
No.

12/06/2012 09:46 AMPosted by Theodorr
Quick question, why is everyone here using straight crit gems instead of agi/crit? I thought agility crit provided + AP puts the oranges over the yellows.
Agility is 923 -> 1% Crit. Crit Rating is 600 -> 1% Crit.

Before even getting the 50% buff from Bear form, Crit Rating gems are better because you get twice as much.
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90 Orc Death Knight
tys
9350
11/09/2012 10:03 AMPosted by Adennak
Sejta is undoubtedly doing something that works for the hardest content the game currently offers. But like any other player, he is part of a raid. PART. Which means that his healers and other tanks are also geared, specced, and trained to work with his way of playing. In a raid, no one's performance or choices exist in a bubble.


+1

What another player does, no matter what their skill level has no relationship to what your needs and your situation are.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
3015
12/05/2012 09:53 PMPosted by Arielle
Surely a majority of people realize what someone means when they talk about the "exp cap/soft cap" vs the hard cap right?
If there's something I've learned, it's that people quite often do not understand the terms they are using.

It also implies a decrease in value after a certain point before the actual cap, which for Guardians, is completely false.


I'm not trying to argue, I'm just now confused about something I thought I understood. (Been away from wow a looong time, so my understanding is shaky... working on it)

Boss can dodge/parry. Yes? Expertise reduces chance for target to dodge/parry. Ok. You are saying there isn't a soft cap though, so that implies that .... all targets have the same dodge and parry % rates, and that once your expertise reaches that % you hit the hard cap... or that expertise reduces the targets combined dodge an parry % rate by its rating.

I had (very possibly incorrectly) presumed it reduced both the dodge and parry % rates simultaneously. And that the dodge rate was in the 8% ballpark for raid boss mobs... because that would mean there is a soft cap right around said 8% figure.

Now I'm staring to think it reduces the dodge rate off the table first and then the parry rate... based on some of the stuff said in this thread... is that right?

I know I'm completely uncertain, and need to study up more... a lot more. Clarification would be very much appreciated.
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90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
12/07/2012 05:28 AMPosted by Ravnus
I had (very possibly incorrectly) presumed it reduced both the dodge and parry % rates simultaneously.
This no longer happens.

12/07/2012 05:28 AMPosted by Ravnus
Now I'm staring to think it reduces the dodge rate off the table first and then the parry rate... based on some of the stuff said in this thread... is that right?
Yes.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
3015
12/07/2012 07:46 AMPosted by Arielle
I had (very possibly incorrectly) presumed it reduced both the dodge and parry % rates simultaneously.
This no longer happens.

Now I'm staring to think it reduces the dodge rate off the table first and then the parry rate... based on some of the stuff said in this thread... is that right?
Yes.


Thanks for clarifying! So much has changed over these last few years I've been away, it almost feels like an entirely different game >.< *scurries off to EJ for more reading*
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90 Night Elf Druid
6280
Arielle I think you've convinced me to go 15% exp
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