Dailies are starting to burn me out ..

90 Worgen Hunter
4670
The problem here Bashiok is that for your hardcore progression raiders, unlocking all the valor gear feels like a requirement, not a thing we can do when we feel like it. Between that and trying to maximize tillers so I can have mats for 300 stat food (which again, a lot of guilds are requiring from their raiders), WoW is monopolizing all of my gaming time. I get that you guys want to make sure the casual players don't get bored, but in the process of doing so you've basically forced the hardcore progression raiders to -have- to play all the time.


For a hardcore progression raider, I don't think it's unreasonable that additional time and requirements are needed to be a hardcore progression raider.


I really really disagree with this point. Simply because you enjoy raiding doesn't mean you should be forced into grinding rep through dallies. WoW has taken a U-Turn in MoP in terms of its philosophy on this and it makes me sad, because I really enjoyed the option of never having to quest after 85 and still being able to keep up in ilvl to other progression raiders. I don't have that option now and it's souring me on the game as a whole because I find dallies that arduous.

The valor cap was brilliant because it said you can do raiding, dungeons, or certain quests to get epic gear, but we will control the speed so that players don't have to burn themselves out but can still keep up. Now that is unraveling.
Edited by Marius on 10/12/2012 12:00 PM PDT
90 Orc Warrior
13615
10/12/2012 11:47 AMPosted by Gorathra
am a semi-hardcore raider (heroic rag, heroic DW) and also a goblin that is involved in the AH. I have been playing ever day since the release of Mop for 2-3 hours at night and the fact that I am not geared enough for LFR when I was heroic BiS for every piece of gear in cata? It just disgusted me. Yeah I can run dungeons, but then I get no faction rep, or I can run the dailies but then I am not able to get any decent gear for several weeks because it takes FOREVER to earn rep.


So you are quitting because you dont have BIS in every gear slot in less than three weeks? You can get into lfr without doing a single daily. Get the heroic dungeon pieces, direbrew trinket, buy boe epics and crafted gear. Get boots off of a sha of anger kill. There are many ways to get gear besides doing dailies.
90 Gnome Priest
6000
10/12/2012 10:10 AMPosted by Raleth
LAMBORGHINI MERCY


Yo chick she so thirsty
2 Draenei Shaman
0
Previously we were placing limits on dailies and what you were able to accomplish, regardless of what you wanted to do or had time to do. Now, removing the daily quest cap and adding a ton of dailies is really us taking the lid off the cookie jar. You could potentially get an icky tummy if you're trying to eat all of them every day. But we think that's a decision each player can make for themselves. Some people are going to feel like they're missing out or falling behind if they don't do absolutely everything every day, and that's something everyone should evaluate and decide for themselves if that's what they can and want to do.

Personally I'm working on a couple factions at a time. They're not providing items that will make or break my ability to play, enjoy and advance in the game, and the expansion is going to be out a while. I have time to work on the others later.


You're trying just tell the community that you were right when you defended the daily cap. That's pethetic. People aren't burned out on dailyes because the cap is gone, they're feeling burned out because you've made it so dailiys are the only way to get rep. The problems is you removed the tabard, and it's pretty obvious. Instead, you choose to ignore/can't see the obvious, and blame it on the dailiy cap, something that has nothing to do with this.

And by the way, forcing people to do dailys to spend their honor/valor, dumbest move this expansion.

I know you're a blue, but wiith no due respect, ignoring the obvious is a tried and true sign of stupidity.
Edited by Viernes on 10/12/2012 12:01 PM PDT
90 Blood Elf Priest
0
10/12/2012 09:34 AMPosted by Kurt
No kidding slow down you can burn you self out on Questing and Battelgrounds Arenas and raiding if ya trying to take on to much. Become blah after a while.


The one major thing people forget is Valor is capped at 1000 points per week. So even if you have every faction opened up the most you could have is 2 pieces of gear at this point. So not having rep isn't really holding anyone back.

And for those that say they are progression raiders. You'd already be raiding regardless of gear and in fact likely have a piece or 2 from boss drops. If your raid leader expects full Valor gear to raid at this point then they ain't to bright. So again your not being held back.

If anyone cares to give other excuses for Blizz to make it easier they can be shot down just as quickly.
2 Orc Warlock
0
10/12/2012 11:14 AMPosted by Bashiok
The problem here Bashiok is that for your hardcore progression raiders, unlocking all the valor gear feels like a requirement, not a thing we can do when we feel like it. Between that and trying to maximize tillers so I can have mats for 300 stat food (which again, a lot of guilds are requiring from their raiders), WoW is monopolizing all of my gaming time. I get that you guys want to make sure the casual players don't get bored, but in the process of doing so you've basically forced the hardcore progression raiders to -have- to play all the time.


For a hardcore progression raider, I don't think it's unreasonable that additional time and requirements are needed to be a hardcore progression raider.


Why?

There seems to be a misconception about hardcore raiders that part of the experience is a mountain of grind before doing the content we actually want to do. The truth is, that has always (in my opinion) been the most frustrating part of raiding. Most hardcore raiders I've known spend less time playing this game than most "casual" players. The majority of us are either students or have full-time jobs (or both), and have trouble doing much more than logging on for raids. In addition, much of the time we DO have outside of raids goes to things like discussing strats, researching/theorycrafting our classes, etc.

Yes, there has always been grind attached to hardcore raiding. But hardcore raiders typically don't do this grind because we like it. We do it because we like the thing behind it SO much that we are willing to go through a lot to get it. That's an important distinction.

I personally have spent more hours than I care to count grinding out dailies (something which I HATE and have no interest in doing), because they have been set up as a requirement for me to do the content I LIKE doing. Given the choice, I would have loved to do some challenge modes, maybe try out pet battles. Heck I might even have enjoyed doing some of the dailies for the vanity rewards, if I didn't feel forced into it. It's not like I would be running out of content if I didn't have to do dailies--blizzard has done a great job of providing tons of things to do outside of raids this xpac, and I think it's fantastic. The problem is, instead of doing those things, all my free time goes to something that I don't enjoy.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that there has to be some grind in any MMO. If you don't put in any work to do something, there's no sense of accomplishment. But there is already plenty of grind associated with raiding--gearing from 5 mans and LFR, getting food, flasks, pots etc., and even in many ways the research that goes into fights and class mechanics. The reality of the situation is that, at the start of the "do the content you like doing" expansion, the breakdown of the community looks like this:

Interested in dailies? Here's a bunch of dailies with tons of cool rewards

Interested in leveling? Here's 5 new levels, a new class and a new race

Interested in 5 mans? Here's a bunch of new 5 mans, and challenge modes if the heroics get too easy

Interested in playing the auction house/making lots of gold? Here's the BMAH with rewards for all your effort

Interested in collecting pets, playing mini-games, etc? Pet battles!

Interested in casual raiding? LFR and later normal modes.

Interested in hardcore raiding? Level to 90, probably have someone level a monk, grind 5 mans for gear, grind 5 reps through dailies, check BMAH for raid gear, run LFR, clear normal modes, now you can do the content you want to do.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't have any grind. But you have to admit there IS a discrepancy, and I don't think it's fair to just shrug it off since you know we will do it anyway. We are just players of the game like anyone else, with things we enjoy and things we don't. Why force us to do things we don't enjoy just because what we do enjoy is "hardcore?" Progression raiding already involves a lot of effort, and it's effort that's fun to us. We don't need to be shoehorned into content that isn't aimed at us and isn't fun for many of us.
90 Gnome Mage
11195
Don't know why we have to keep quoting this, especially for a blue, but this is NOT what we were told.

Ghostcrawler
Head enchants are gone.

We decided that putting head enchants on the various faction vendors wasn't working well with our design intent for the factions. There is a lot of max-level quest content in MoP, much of it focused around the reputation with the new factions. I think it's really cool stuff -- worlds away from the old Argent Crusade scourge stone days. :)

In previous expansions, the head enchants on the faction vendors served to force players into that content. You couldn't even choose which reputation to pursue -- you had to pursue the one with your specific head enchant. Our design intent for MoP is to give players options in how to play, and the head enchant design wasn't compatible with that.


You did the exact same thing you were doing with the head enchants except now it is with everything. Gear, crafting materials mounts, all are forced through grinding faction rep just like Sons of Hodir and all the Catastrophe rep grinds.

We were told we would have options and you didn't live up to your end of the bargain so quit being surprised that a large part of your player base is upset with you. Choosing which mind numbing dailies you want to take up all your time with is NOT an option so stop acting like it is.
Edited by Tatertawt on 10/12/2012 12:01 PM PDT
90 Tauren Paladin
16690
I dont mnd doing rep grinds but my only complaint is the total lack of rep from these dailies. 100-110 rep per quest is awful and that's with the guild perk, so it's what 90 rep without? Flat out bad and could use a boost.
10/12/2012 11:47 AMPosted by Kerias
I see dailies as simply the most efficient system for all involved.


Have you been reading this thread at all? It may be good for you, but many people simply are not interested in doing the dailies. Even if that means gaining less rep in dungeons as compared to doing dailies.
90 Worgen Hunter
19840
the only part of wow I enjoyed was raiding and arena,(and now collecting battle pets) I don't enjoy doing two hours of dailies everyday. it burned me the hell out

I can't just grab a cauldron and a feast anymore, I have to help out some poor people and manage a farm. The best food requires me to fish, grind mobs AND plant food. Really? flasks require a golden lotus which are expensive, the people who just like to raid got punished the most in MoP. everything feels forced and expensive in time or gold.
Edited by Danshot on 10/12/2012 12:05 PM PDT
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9550
10/12/2012 11:24 AMPosted by Nexxdominus
For a hardcore progression raider, I don't think it's unreasonable that additional time and requirements are needed to be a hardcore progression raider.


And if someone dies from playing too long without a break as has happened in the past you know that this is going to be quoted and further vilify the game we all play.


Thats the players problem for being a crazy person not Blizzard's.
10 Gnome Rogue
50
10/12/2012 11:47 AMPosted by Kerias
It would also negatively impact people who don't play everyday by causing them to fall behind if they don't cap their rep for the week in dungeons.


If they don't play often why do they care if they fall behind?

Either way I don't think bending over backwards to accommodate people who hardly play the game is the best idea.
90 Troll Monk
12695
10/12/2012 11:14 AMPosted by Bashiok
The problem here Bashiok is that for your hardcore progression raiders, unlocking all the valor gear feels like a requirement, not a thing we can do when we feel like it. Between that and trying to maximize tillers so I can have mats for 300 stat food (which again, a lot of guilds are requiring from their raiders), WoW is monopolizing all of my gaming time. I get that you guys want to make sure the casual players don't get bored, but in the process of doing so you've basically forced the hardcore progression raiders to -have- to play all the time.


For a hardcore progression raider, I don't think it's unreasonable that additional time and requirements are needed to be a hardcore progression raider.


The amount of time required for FOOD, just one of the buffs, is stupid, not sure how you can deny this. 5 food takes 1 daily token, which is bad enough, but then it takes almost half a farm worth of vegetables on top it. And this isn't even for a full damn stack, not even half a stack, but a QUARTER of one.

That is terrible, and there's no possible way to sugar coat it.
90 Tauren Warrior
11100
Blizz took out head enchants and gave shoulder enchants to inscr. so we would have to rep grind a specially for correct enchants but turn around and make us rep grind to get gear that we need.

I dont mind rep grinding for vanity stuff.

Take out tabards that give you rep in dungeons, is a big mistake.

Only reason to group up for dailies is to get those peasky gankers of our back.


Why do you need the gear?

OOOOHHHH you do not. Get your gear in heroics, LFR, Normal raids.

If you are not in a hardcore Heroic progression guild you DO NOT NEED VALOR GEAR TO RAID TEIR 1. Valor gear is there for the slots THAT DO NOT DROP IN RAIDS FOR YOU, NOT TO GEAR YOU FOR RAIDS.

It is an entitlement and point of view issues NOT a dailies issue.


Since the invention of "badges" in Warcraft. No vendor for this currency has ever been locked behind a daily rep wall. It is not an entitlement if they were always there since the implementation of "badges" and open to all players. This has now changed. Did you think this would not cause any issues?

And yes in many cases valor is used to help gear someone to raid. If it was not, they would not be rewarded in 5 man heroics, scenerios, or given out in dailies.
85 Orc Shaman
8280
Previously we were placing limits on dailies and what you were able to accomplish, regardless of what you wanted to do or had time to do. Now, removing the daily quest cap and adding a ton of dailies is really us taking the lid off the cookie jar. You could potentially get an icky tummy if you're trying to eat all of them every day. But we think that's a decision each player can make for themselves. Some people are going to feel like they're missing out or falling behind if they don't do absolutely everything every day, and that's something everyone should evaluate and decide for themselves if that's what they can and want to do.

Personally I'm working on a couple factions at a time. They're not providing items that will make or break my ability to play, enjoy and advance in the game, and the expansion is going to be out a while. I have time to work on the others later.


Nice turd polish. :P

Why don't you replace your "cookie jar" analogy with something that isn't so ideologically-driven?

FYI: Many players don't view daily quests, or WoW quests in general, as "cookies". For those of us who dislike the obligation to do something we don't like, whether 10 a day, 30 a day, or even 1 a day, this is hardly appropriate. You're implying that people who overplay dailies are just getting too much of a good thing, when a big complaint against the current system (including gating, as already stated) is that this is not overindulgence of a sweet thing, but the necessity of pushing coal down our throats so we can get the sweet thing we're really after.

I respect your opinion, but again, the wording is turd polish.
90 Tauren Warrior
11100
10/12/2012 12:03 PMPosted by Glítch
It would also negatively impact people who don't play everyday by causing them to fall behind if they don't cap their rep for the week in dungeons.


If they don't play often why do they care if they fall behind?

Either way I don't think bending over backwards to accommodate people who hardly play the game is the best idea.


Not being able to log on 7 days a week is not the same as hardly playing.
14 Orc Shaman
14245
The problem here Bashiok is that for your hardcore progression raiders, unlocking all the valor gear feels like a requirement, not a thing we can do when we feel like it. Between that and trying to maximize tillers so I can have mats for 300 stat food (which again, a lot of guilds are requiring from their raiders), WoW is monopolizing all of my gaming time. I get that you guys want to make sure the casual players don't get bored, but in the process of doing so you've basically forced the hardcore progression raiders to -have- to play all the time.


For a hardcore progression raider, I don't think it's unreasonable that additional time and requirements are needed to be a hardcore progression raider.


at least make Ironpaw tokens more plentiful from dailies.
I have to spend 2 hours on dailies, then I need spend lots of time farming cooking materials to get the 300 stat food for raiding (or lots of money to buy cheaper foods and change them into ironpaw tokens).
Edited by Tayzonday on 10/12/2012 12:06 PM PDT
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