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Really? I wonder what all those epic pieces are for then. Definitely couldn't be used for raiding.
All of the reputations, with the exception of the Anglers, offer epic quality loot from 476 to 489.
The Tillers are required in a different way as a means for the best food, because any guild that is even semi-serious about raiding will require the best enchants, correct? Food will be no different. That 2% wipe you just had? That could have been avoided if all your DPS had 25 more of their primary stat for the entire fight, or maybe the tank wouldn't have died if the healer had that smidgen of mana from that 25 extra Spirit, or if the tank had had an extra 500 health.
For you folks thinking that the dailies are mandatory:
You know Bash, I have always defended you to people, but this is ridiculous. Out of ALL of the posts you could reply to in this thread you choose this one? You choose the one person that posts something that isn't even really relevant to the discussion.
So in essence you are blowing us off entirely. Our arguments are falling on completely deaf ears here.
This is a topic for an AMA or a Q&A with GC. Obviously the forum posts are getting us nowhere.
Oh wait, I'm sorry, my alts will get double rep from doing the same exact quests whenever that gets implemented. Thank you oh so much!!!
90 Undead Monk
Any chance we could get an update on the item upgrade system that's supposed to come in 5.1? Specifically, will it be rep gated?
If it is rep gated, I'll know that when I hit 90 I shouldn't queue for random heroics, and should instead just queue only for the specific heroics that drop gear I want, as VP will be 100% unuseable for me (I don't intend on doing even a single daily).
If it isn't rep gated, which would be fantastic, then I have no qualms with the dailies at all, since I'll be able to spend my VP on that system and just ignore the reputation system altogether.
My only real issue with the dailies currently is Celestials and Shado-pan being locked behind Golden Lotus. Which means if I want /anything/ out of either AC or Shado, I HAVE to do the Golden Lotus. Every single day. Whether I want to or not, until revered. Which is a lot of mindless grinding for a very distant goal that opens up more grinding. It will probably be another month before I can reliably begin working on the reputations I actually /want/.
And I'm going to have to do it again, and again and again, for my alts if they want a certain thing from a certain vendor, such as crafting stuff. I don't 'need' it. I can live without it. But I'm going to be months just trying to get past the Golden Lotus.
In Burning Crusade you could at least run dungeons to get the reputation you needed; perhaps Blizzard might be willing to put that /back/, so I'm not spending hours fighting a few dozen people over a tiny handful of mobs at one location, for less than 150 rep. The overcrowding for tillers alone is obnoxious, Golden Lotus dailies require several times as long as it might on a low pop simply because at any given time there's about fourty people after the mob you just targeted. And missing even one day on the Lotus dailies is punishing as it slows everything else down.
Blizzard intends to add a thing in that once you've hit a certain rep with a faction all your alts go in faster - but is that going to be in 5.1? And how many weeks away is 5.1, assuming it goes in then?
I hate the Golden Lotus. I may have liked them if I wasn't forced to do them on any alt that might want something out of the factions I can't touch until revered. It's not a matter of them not getting in the way of raiding. I want the black dragon mount off of Shado-Pan. I can't hope to even START it until a few weeks of Lotus. It's punishing and not fun. And when I finally get it? Every alt I want to ride on better be exalted with the Order of the Cloud Serpent, or they can't ride it.
There is no sense of accomplishment when grinding on Golden Lotus. Just the feeling of having to do it all again tomorrow to even begin the real goal - some other faction. I'm happy with the slow pacing of Cloud Serpent, as I can watch my baby dragon grow, and play with it, and it feels like I have an actual impact. Lotus .. nope. Hate it.
TLDR: I hate golden lotus. I can tolerate the rest, more or less.
I'd like to see another blue post that says "thanks for the feedback you guys are amazing for helping"
It's simple, people are being forced to grind rep to get that little bit of an edge to stay competitive and hold their raid spot.
That may not be mutually exclusive to what blizzard would define as hardcore. Rather, the trickle down affects anyone who wants to raid, and possibly, inadvertently.
But I don't believe that this is accidental. I believe blizzard does it's homework and realizes the allure of grinding loot equals more game time, hence more logins, hence more activity, hence more word of mouth.
Dont let these guys use the "we messed up excuse." Playing dumb is a great way to get in and out of things.
You say you need dailies to raid
Go back and read. Where do you ever see me say I need dailies to raid?
What I want is a way to gain rep without doing dailies. I don't want it faster than anyone else, or easier. I just want a choice.
For you folks thinking that the dailies are mandatory:
How is it not relevant? If you find that gameplay boring, don't do it. The only people to me that have a legit gripe are crafters. Gearwise, there are plenty of options.
[quote][quote]Right now, dailies aren't required for gearing up. Heroic dungeons are sufficient... Unless if they're attempting to bypass normal raids and go right to heroic raids. In which case, I have no sympathy for them. The grind isn't required and they're only doing this to themselves.
Am I the only one that thinks the heroic and JP gear is kind of lame? You can't blame people for wanting to bypass gear that for mages, at least, I found often more disappointing than PvP gear.
Edited by Dspite on 10/12/2012 1:13 PM PDT
The problem here Bashiok is that for your hardcore progression raiders, unlocking all the valor gear feels like a requirement, not a thing we can do when we feel like it. Between that and trying to maximize tillers so I can have mats for 300 stat food (which again, a lot of guilds are requiring from their raiders), WoW is monopolizing all of my gaming time. I get that you guys want to make sure the casual players don't get bored, but in the process of doing so you've basically forced the hardcore progression raiders to -have- to play all the time.
I think a problem I run into with these dailies, for myself and the amount of time I put in, is raid gear can quickly move up to or past what one is able to obtain from rep factions - faster than getting the reps up in the first place to even obtain that gear. For example, why would I spend weeks getting my Golden Lotus rep up to revered, so I can spend weeks getting my august celestials rep up to revered, so I can purchase, with my weekly limited valor points, a pair of plate dps boots, when equivalent iLevel/Role boots drop from the Stone guard (1st boss fight) in Mogu'shan vaults? The only answer I can come up with might be to max/min stats - but by the point I actually get that rep up to the required level, I might be fighting that first boss on heroic level, potentially making a max/min arguement moot. If I'm running raids, scenerios, etc and obtaining valor there, why would I do dailies that put me over my weekly cap?
Don't get me wrong, I think its great that casuals have an alternate means of progressing that isnt the epic free-for-all WotLK was, but I dont think, as a gearing strategy for a more dedicated player, it should be so conflicting if they want to do both dailies and raiding.
I think a significant part of the problem is the rep lockout that Golden lotus places on other factions, but even then the rep grind for each individual faction feels too slow for a motivated player.
Edited by Necronom on 10/12/2012 1:13 PM PDT
Tabard reputation was a Wrath and Cata thing
Wrong. Some players would have to put in time that they don't necessarily have. If they removed daily cap and added tabards, it would still take the same amount of effort but would be a lot more time efficient.
I realize they are not going to listen to our plea, however, because of those who burn through content, limit themselves to raiding and then sit in sitting of their own accord and complain that there is nothing else to do in the game, demanding that Blizzard release more content immediately (even though there is still plenty of content that they are willfully ignoring).
Edited by Divinora on 10/12/2012 1:13 PM PDT
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