Dailies are starting to burn me out ..

100 Pandaren Priest
20605
Is there any reason why they couldn't leave the tabard and simply limit/cap rep from using them? 10K max per week perhaps? Taking options away from a large number of players to keep hardcore guilds from forcing their members to max their rep isn't a valid excuse.


You would then need to cap the rep across both the dailies and the tabards, else you would have people being required to do both the dailies and cap their rep from tabards. It would also negatively impact people who don't play everyday by causing them to fall behind if they don't cap their rep for the week in dungeons. The cap for a week would need to be obscenely low to do any inconsistent player a favor.

I see dailies as simply the most efficient system for all involved.
100 Night Elf Rogue
14410
I actually just quit wow for this very reason. (Gave away all of my stuff last night and this morning, Blizzard can see my mailing so they know its true). Lucky the annual pass is up in a few days (interesting to see the timing of the release of MoP and the annual pass expiration when you look at it) so that I can cancel my account as well.

I am a semi-hardcore raider (heroic rag, heroic DW) and also a goblin that is involved in the AH. I have been playing ever day since the release of Mop for 2-3 hours at night and the fact that I am not geared enough for LFR when I was heroic BiS for every piece of gear in cata? It just disgusted me. Yeah I can run dungeons, but then I get no faction rep, or I can run the dailies but then I am not able to get any decent gear for several weeks because it takes FOREVER to earn rep.

I remember someone at Blizzard saying that the Molten Front daily grind was a bad idea, well the forced dailies in Mop are also a VERY bad idea. It will burn people out. I loved the idea of the tabords. That way you can get rep AND gear and then do the dailies if you have enough time or want to progress on rep a little more.

I truly enjoyed playing wow for the past 3 and 1/2 years, but over the past few days HAVING to run the dailies, I looked at my screen and said to myself....this is not fun. I took a trip over to shadowglenn, looked around one last time, mounted and then dismounted from my Reins of the Traveler's Tundra Mammoth, and logged off as vendors waved good-bye to me.

Bad game design killed my love for wow.
100 Night Elf Druid
16950
10/12/2012 11:18 AMPosted by Kimjongheal


For a hardcore progression raider, I don't think it's unreasonable that additional time and requirements are needed to be a hardcore progression raider.


But the new method completely pounds people who, before, could invest a decent amount of time, but not every single day.

I get the reasoning behind the gating (I think) and it has its merits, but you know that people are going to go after it and then burn themselves out, which helps no one in the long run. A weekly rep cap, since that's what you've essentially imposed, that could be gotten with a mix of dailies and dungeon runs would have probably gone a lot better, so people don't get agitated when they have to miss a day.


Well the thing is the raid has already been cleared on heroic by people who also haven't finished the rep grind, so no it's by no means required to do the rep grind.
90 Draenei Priest
6405
10/12/2012 11:14 AMPosted by Bashiok
The problem here Bashiok is that for your hardcore progression raiders, unlocking all the valor gear feels like a requirement, not a thing we can do when we feel like it. Between that and trying to maximize tillers so I can have mats for 300 stat food (which again, a lot of guilds are requiring from their raiders), WoW is monopolizing all of my gaming time. I get that you guys want to make sure the casual players don't get bored, but in the process of doing so you've basically forced the hardcore progression raiders to -have- to play all the time.


For a hardcore progression raider, I don't think it's unreasonable that additional time and requirements are needed to be a hardcore progression raider.


lol you tell 'em. These kids have no idea what its like to spend all week preparing for a raid. At least these are just dailies and not DAYS farming herbs/ore for one night of raiding.

*swings walking cane*
90 Orc Warlock
12975

For a hardcore progression raider, I don't think it's unreasonable that additional time and requirements are needed to be a hardcore progression raider.


I guess man. I'm not sure how much longer I can do 6 hours of dailies a day though, ontop of raiding and farming for flasks, food, and potions.

I certainly don't have time to do anything I consider "elective" anymore like gather extra mats for ironpaw items like the flippable table, farm old reps, pickup the achievements from Cata I have left, or level an alt. I definitely don't have time to play D3 or any other games.
100 Orc Death Knight
12390
10/12/2012 11:14 AMPosted by Bashiok
For a hardcore progression raider, I don't think it's unreasonable that additional time and requirements are needed to be a hardcore progression raider.


They really should give us the option to Dislike blue posts! :)
100 Worgen Druid
8460
Here's what I do: I play the game and I have fun. Is there a lot to do? Yes. Will it be there tomorrow? Also yes. Today I want to fly around and pick flowers. Wow, look at all those blue exclamation marks. I don't feel like doing dailies today though. Oh wait what's that I see? I never saw that cave before... I guess I'm exploring now.

It's a game. If you aren't having fun stop playing and do something else where you WILL have fun in your spare time.
90 Gnome Mage
9310
10/12/2012 11:37 AMPosted by Kalorian
How are you defining casual player? When I think of a casual player, it isn't someone who feels like he needs to max out his rep and valor gains so he can be decked out in all purples ASAP.


I'll even work with your definition of casual instead of telling you mine. So the player you describe probably doesn't like that he only gets full rewards for the first 2 hours he plays on any given day, then gets zero rep rewards and half valor rewards after that. If he logs in every other day for 4 hours instead of every day for 2 hours, half the character progression!

And he gets no choice in content for those 2 hours a day, but instead gets led down the gaming on rails experience. And he knows every day he opts to do something fun instead of that 2 hours of railroad gaming, he falls farther and farther behind the rest of the community in this massively multiplayer game. It's frustrating to play a game that basically punishes you for trying to have a good time, and very anti-casual.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
14115
I love how people with character flaws and personal problems come on the Forums to blame the game.

If you don't like doing something show a little spine and don't do it.
100 Gnome Warlock
16310
10/12/2012 10:14 AMPosted by Maximusrex
There is no reason to do them all every day, you can't earn Valor fast enough to buy the gear as fast as you can rep up.


yep. pretty much this.
Edited by Headdie on 10/12/2012 11:53 AM PDT
100 Human Warlock
16030

Here's a thought, maybe they could reduce the rep awarded by wearing a tabard in a dungeon rather then removing that option entirely? thanks Rhyzzen, you beat me to it!

In an expac advertised as "Play it your way" there sure seems to be alot of restrictions on playing "My way".


Unfortunately no matter what rewards you put anywhere in the game for anyone, there'll be someone that demands the right to have those rewards "their way", rather than just putting up with the rewards that were provided for "their way".

It kinda reeks of "Your nice stuff is better than our nice stuff! How dare they do that!"

Seems the only thing that will keep everyone happy would be if everything dropped nothing but VPs and there was a vendor we all went to in order to spend them. People complain about dailies, about RNG, about availability of crafting patterns. (Edit, lets not forget complaints about LFR being both too easy and too hard at the same time.)

Basically, people aren't content with playing the game their way, they want to get the rewards that were selected for people playing it other ways too.
Edited by Alelsa on 10/12/2012 11:53 AM PDT
100 Pandaren Priest
13065
10/12/2012 11:14 AMPosted by Bashiok
The problem here Bashiok is that for your hardcore progression raiders, unlocking all the valor gear feels like a requirement, not a thing we can do when we feel like it. Between that and trying to maximize tillers so I can have mats for 300 stat food (which again, a lot of guilds are requiring from their raiders), WoW is monopolizing all of my gaming time. I get that you guys want to make sure the casual players don't get bored, but in the process of doing so you've basically forced the hardcore progression raiders to -have- to play all the time.


For a hardcore progression raider, I don't think it's unreasonable that additional time and requirements are needed to be a hardcore progression raider.


How can you guys really defend the dailies by saying things like this or that theyre "optional". Hell even in Vanilla there were more ways to get rep then just daily quests. Now don't get me wrong im not saying i want to sit there and grind mobs non-stop for rep like timbermaw, but at least give us more options than just the daily grind. Let us use the Tabard as well as dailies, or put fewer dailies worth slightly more rep like shado-pan so we dont have to do 50 of them every single day. Also you could try removing the rep req. for valor gear. Were already capped on valor per week, and gaining valor takes way longer than it did in cata so what is the real need for making us HAVE to grind rep for the gear. I can understand rep grinds for mounts/pets/prof but not for valor or JP gear (granted JP was fixed). As for the unreasonable additional time, i think all of us raiders agree that yes we put in more work in this game, but what we are all saying is that we don't want that "work" to be a mountainous grind of daily quests.
100 Pandaren Priest
20605
I just hit exalted with Tillers and Cloud serpent.

Man it's already gotten easier.


I haven't even started Cloud Serpent. My daily run takes less than an hour, which on non-raid nights is the perfect amount of unwinding time between homework, class, and sleep.
85 Undead Mage
10025
Blizz took out head enchants and gave shoulder enchants to inscr. so we would have to rep grind a specially for correct enchants but turn around and make us rep grind to get gear that we need.

I dont mind rep grinding for vanity stuff.

Take out tabards that give you rep in dungeons, is a big mistake.

Only reason to group up for dailies is to get those peasky gankers of our back.


Why do you need the gear?

OOOOHHHH you do not. Get your gear in heroics, LFR, Normal raids.

If you are not in a hardcore Heroic progression guild you DO NOT NEED VALOR GEAR TO RAID TEIR 1. Valor gear is there for the slots THAT DO NOT DROP IN RAIDS FOR YOU, NOT TO GEAR YOU FOR RAIDS.

It is an entitlement and point of view issues NOT a dailies issue.
90 Human Rogue
12650
i personally would like to see the compromise between the two yin-yang < only MOP reference i promise.

The concept of doing dailies is to further experience the story, so why not have a tabard (most already in place) unlocked at say, honored that gives rep for said faction. This way players are "forced" to do the dailies and see the quests/story but are not penalized until exalted for things they would rather grind out than quest for.
Also, i feel that i am not alone when i say there is no way, even with the rep speed increase, that i am going to level an alt's rep during this xpac in every faction.

With that said, I would also like to see a slight gold increase for quest reward. Prices in game are way higher than they've ever been for even vendor specific things, and the reward given feels lower than the expected costs

Hopefully you guys take the time to review all posts made on these concerns
90 Tauren Warrior
11100
Previously we were placing limits on dailies and what you were able to accomplish, regardless of what you wanted to do or had time to do. Now, removing the daily quest cap and adding a ton of dailies is really us taking the lid off the cookie jar. You could potentially get an icky tummy if you're trying to eat all of them every day. But we think that's a decision each player can make for themselves. Some people are going to feel like they're missing out or falling behind if they don't do absolutely everything every day, and that's something everyone should evaluate and decide for themselves if that's what they can and want to do.

Personally I'm working on a couple factions at a time. They're not providing items that will make or break my ability to play, enjoy and advance in the game, and the expansion is going to be out a while. I have time to work on the others later.


Well said. Currently i'm doing Golden Lotus since it open sup more factions and the Order of the Cloud Serpent because I want my mount. Next I will knock out Lorewalkers and Tillers. Then find something else to do.


Lorewalkers can be done in a day. In 2 hours if you have a good plan. And I mean get to exhalted in 2 maybe 3 hours. So don't plan on "working" on that one too long.
MVP - World of Warcraft
100 Night Elf Druid
14130
I'm raiding on my mage while also having a full-time job that often has me working more than 40 hours a week, including being in the lab on weekends or evenings when we have child participants coming in.

So, I scaled down to a guild during grad school that only required me to raid two days a week. However, I'm now having to play multiple hours a day every day outside of raids to keep up on other tasks.

Since flasks and consumables require super rare materials and alot of time to acuqire them, that adds a lot of extra time onto prep. This is especially true for guilds who used to provide cauldrons and feasts to their guild but no longer have easy access to these things anymore.

I've had to be very good at setting goals for what I actually want to do. Right now, the only daily quests I've done at all this week are golden lotus and tillers. I'm about half way through revered with tillers and less than half way through honored with golden lotus. At this point, I don't expect to hit exalted with any of the Cata reputations other than tillers (because I can't function as a raider long-term without those food resources). Otherwise, I'm not getting any progress on a lot of the factions because I just don't get enough reward for the effort that I put in.

I've done Vanilla, TBC, WOTLK, and Cataclysm raiding. This expansion, however, has felt more like work than the previous expansions because the daily quest grind takes up hours of my time every day and it just isn't enjoyable to have to fight for spawns of "kill or pick up X items" over and over and over again. I tried doing all the reputation grinds and realized that just wasn't a realistic goal for me, so I'm just going to skip entire factions (including the cloud serpents I really wanted) that don't provide necessary raiding enhancements, because I have to spend probably 20 to 30 hours a week in-game just doing activities that support my 6 hours a week of raiding.
Edited by Lissanna on 10/12/2012 11:57 AM PDT
100 Pandaren Priest
20605
10/12/2012 11:53 AMPosted by Velasca
With that said, I would also like to see a slight gold increase for quest reward. Prices in game are way higher than they've ever been for even vendor specific things, and the reward given feels lower than the expected costs


Okay, I wouldn't disagree with this one.
90 Draenei Shaman
6775
Previously we were placing limits on dailies and what you were able to accomplish, regardless of what you wanted to do or had time to do. Now, removing the daily quest cap and adding a ton of dailies is really us taking the lid off the cookie jar. You could potentially get an icky tummy if you're trying to eat all of them every day. But we think that's a decision each player can make for themselves. Some people are going to feel like they're missing out or falling behind if they don't do absolutely everything every day, and that's something everyone should evaluate and decide for themselves if that's what they can and want to do.

Personally I'm working on a couple factions at a time. They're not providing items that will make or break my ability to play, enjoy and advance in the game, and the expansion is going to be out a while. I have time to work on the others later.


Even if you are not working on all the factions at the same time they are too much since the fact that they are required.

And please, dont tell me they dont, because anything you want to do in MoP is tied with dailies:

Valor gear
Primary Professions
Mount hunting
Secondary professions
Vanity items
Even world completion, since you cannot access every part of the world unless you unlock it via dailies.

And you have no other choice, no tabard, no crepps giving rep with those factions, nothing, just dailies.

And the fact that several factions are being cockblocked by Golden Lotus rep just makes it worse.

Please dont be stubborn, the idea why you came out with this might be good, but the implementation is BAD.

Try to listen to the community this time and dont make the same mistake you did at cata start by mocking the people that were giving you valid feedback.
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