Idea for 'new' loot system in dungeons

90 Goblin Priest
12385
Hello, this isn't necessarily the correct forum for this, but I couldn't find a forum that is for this purpose. I'm here to make a suggestion about loot rolls in heroics. As a healer, I cannot express to you enough how much stress and anger I have been caused by Caster dps taking items that are obviously geared for healers. In specific, a Dirl's Drafty Drape was taken from me just around an hour ago in a heroic Scholomance run. It doesn't matter who took it, it's the matter that they took it at all. An item like this is obviously made for a healer, not a dps, as spirit is one of the primary stats on it. My idea is thus: Retrieve the old loot system from Raid Finder that gave people a 'bonus' 100 added to thier roll for being in the spec the item is for, and implement it into Dungeons and Heroics. This would prevent a lot of gear theft, and I call it that because that is exactly what it is when you get to the root of it, and also help people gear faster I think, because there would be less healers rolling for dps gear ( I know for fact we are just as guilty of this as dps is of taking healing items).
Honestly, I think it would be a major improvement to game mechanics as it is nothing but an improvement.

Thank you for your time and consideration,
Priestikins
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90 Tauren Hunter
10365
I really do get tired of ppl claiming that nobody but healers can roll on gear just because it has spirit.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
5795
As a shadow priest I can use healing gear because I get spell hit from spirit.. Same goes for a few other classes. So just because it has spirit on it doesnt make it a healing only item.
Edited by Evilsenate on 10/12/2012 12:24 AM PDT
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80 Tauren Druid
3715
Any suggestions regarding raid or dungeon looting must be posted in the Dungeons and Raids forum. Developers do not come here for suggestions.
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90 Goblin Priest
12385
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that 'Using spirit gear is wrong' as a dps, but it is common knowledge that spirit is more useful to a healer than to a dps. And I'm also not saying that dps are the only ones to blame. As I previously stated, I've seen plenty of healers need roll on dps trinkets, I've seen plenty of tanks need roll on plate dps gear, and vice-versa. I'm not saying that this is anyone's fault and I'm certainly not pointing fingers, it's simply a suggestion that I thought of that would help everyone progress in obtaining gear in a better, faster, and more friendly manner.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
5795
While I agree with you about rolling on opposite role needs. Spell hit is one of the most important stats for a spriest. So spirit gear is a great choice especially since it usually has haste also which is also one of the most important stats.. It is more a problem with blizz making spirit give spell hit then DPS rolling on it. Spirit is not more useful to a healer then dps. It is pretty even, spell hit for some classes and mana regen for healers. More of an oversight by blizzard then anything else. But of course you can submit your suggestion, it isn't going to hurt anything.
Edited by Evilsenate on 10/12/2012 12:38 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Mage
7825
10/12/2012 12:33 AMPosted by Priestikins
but it is common knowledge that spirit is more useful to a healer than to a dps


As shadow priest DPS, I get increased hit rating + mana regen.
As balance druid DPS, I get increased hit rating + mana regen.

I'm pretty sure spirit assists healers in mana regen and probably goes towards crit rating too?

10/12/2012 12:33 AMPosted by Priestikins
I've seen plenty of healers need roll on dps trinkets, I've seen plenty of tanks need roll on plate dps gear, and vice-versa


Absolutely, Paladins, Shammies, and Druids have several specs they can play :p
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90 Goblin Priest
12385
Thank you for pointing me towards the correct forum Tamra.
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90 Goblin Priest
12385
I understand you get hit rating from it, but you also get hit rating from gear with hit rating on it. It wouldn't work in reverse, as a healer gets nothing from 'taking' that piece of gear that DOES have hit on it. I play a caster dps as well as this healer, and I can state that I proudly use no spirit towards hit, and also do not have to go out of my way to reach hit cap without it. There is more than enough gear with hit on it to compensate for you not using spirit for that manner.
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90 Night Elf Druid
12130
The problem is that Blizzard is the one that made Spirit a viable alternative for caster DPS. Now you want to ask Blizzard not to allow caster DPS to roll on something perfectly useful because the mechanic interferes with your desire for more loot.

This is not gear theft, nor would a +100 need roll help, because those caster DPS classes are completely allowed to have that gear. It's made for them just as much as a healer. Because Blizzard made it that way.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
5795
Unfortunately most of the items that have spirit on them also contain haste which is one of the main stats for a spriest. That cannot always be said for most dps gear.. Usually it is Spell crit or mastery, or spell hit.. Seldom does it have haste. You are wrong healers can benefit from dps gear. It does go both ways.
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90 Night Elf Druid
12130
This is what's wrong with the stat mechanics of this game and why there's so much /emo over looting.

There's too much overlap of effects from stats, as your example shows, so there's bound to be conflict over 'whose' piece of gear many pieces fall into.


Actually that's WHY they created those mechanics... to let gear overlap multiple specs, and have it more likely to be used than trashed. Is it of any interest at all if int plate drops when there's no paladin in the group? How fun is it to make runs where nothing at all of interest to you drops?

Is it more or less fun than actually SEEING things drop that you can use, that you have an actual chance of winning?
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90 Goblin Priest
12385
My point is, that currently, with the amount of spirit necessary to keep oneself in mana while in a raid fight, that having spirit be used as hit by dps is both frustrating and a turnoff from people healing. It makes us want to que less, makes us want to play healers less, and overall makes us want to play less. A better alternative would be to add a new or different way of obtaining hit for those of you who 'don't like seeing hit rating on your gear'. Lets cut to the basic there, its not like your getting something extra from using spirit, most gear these days for casters either has spirit and one green stat, or two green stats. Now while the need for 'best' itemization might be true, it's also true that there isn't always an item 'best' itemized for every spec. For example, I used to be a druid healer during ICC. Running 10 man ICC, it was impossible to obtain a cloak with both spirit AND crit, which would have been better than haste for me at the time because I had already reached the point where I would need more haste than possible to add another tick on rejuv. There isn't always 'best' itemized gear for everyone, nor has there ever been, so why should the cloak with spirit and haste attract a dps more than the cloak with hit and mastery, and no spirit? I would go as far to say that letting spirit be used as hit rating was a bad call in the beginning, as up until that point it was useless to dps. Melee don't seek out gear with parry rating on it, while it could be argued in real combat that the ability to parry would also increase one's ability to land a blow. I just feel that it is off-balancing, and drives healers away as they can't get the gear that is necessary for them to perform up to current standards without having to fight with, not other healers, but dps. The same could be said in the other direction though, and I understand that. I feel that healers should basically have a required spirit amount that must be met in order to keep yourself in mana during fights. Enough of a required amount that they would need spirit on all pieces, including trinkets that either have static spirit or proc spirit. This would deterr healers from taking pieces that normally would be worn by dps'ers.
Edited by Priestikins on 10/12/2012 2:54 AM PDT
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61 Worgen Priest
10505
10/12/2012 12:12 AMPosted by Priestikins
As a healer, I cannot express to you enough how much stress and anger I have been caused by Caster dps taking items that are obviously geared for healers.

With the ability to reforge lesser or uneeded stats that makes no item clearly for healers for the most part.

10/12/2012 12:12 AMPosted by Priestikins
My idea is thus: Retrieve the old loot system from Raid Finder that gave people a 'bonus' 100 added to thier roll for being in the spec the item is for, and implement it into Dungeons and Heroics.

They changed the loot system due to outcry by a huge amount of the player base. The old way was very flawed. They are not going to go backwards. Perhaps a suggestion (in the correct forum) about how the new system could be better is the right way to handle this.
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90 Orc Shaman
10620
MS>OS is a player created rule, and Blizzard does not endorse or support it. If you participated in the kill, and your class can use the item (regardless of spec), then you have just as much right to hit need as anyone else.

And you apparently don't understand shadow priests, balance druids, and elemental shamans very well. Spirit is one of their primary stats, because they use it for hit rating. "Spec" checking in 5-man dungeons is not going to happen, because Blizzard specifically designed it to be the way it is (specifically, they want it used to gear up for raids and to gear up off-specs).

Honestly, if they added spec checking to the dungeon finder, then I would just stop using it. That would take 2 healers and 2 tanks out of it, and just make the queue times longer for everyone. I would go back to just doing dungeons with my guild like I did in BC and early Wrath.

You are not a special snowflake and you are not going to get an instant "I WIN" button on gear just because you're a healer.
Edited by Mogrigg on 10/12/2012 6:02 AM PDT
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80 Tauren Druid
3715
I understand you get hit rating from it, but you also get hit rating from gear with hit rating on it. It wouldn't work in reverse, as a healer gets nothing from 'taking' that piece of gear that DOES have hit on it. I play a caster dps as well as this healer, and I can state that I proudly use no spirit towards hit, and also do not have to go out of my way to reach hit cap without it. There is more than enough gear with hit on it to compensate for you not using spirit for that manner.


Actually....

I have no clue why you would be "proud" to stay away from a stat that Blizzard thinks is one of the most important for your spec. Thats why they made the Shadow Priest tier gear have spirit. Spriests, moonkin, and elemental shaman get both hit and mana regen from spirit and even some BiS items last tier were spirit items. If you want to cripple yourself because you feel a stat is "healer-only" that's well and good, but please don't remove my ability to get some BiS items.

Also, I leveled my healer in dungeons. She's level 90 and now I find I *have to* do dailies. Right now my dps is about 5k in my healer gear and I can't kill anything before it kills me. So how do you propose I get a DPS set? Can't do quests, can't roll in a dungeon, can't do dailies so I have no money to buy pricey BoEs, JP gear requires rep - which I can't get. What do you suggest? How do I do this? Queue as dps in all healing gear with 5 k dps and pray they don't boot me? What is your suggestion there?
Edited by Tamrâ on 10/12/2012 6:29 AM PDT
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