Windsong and Elemental Force Information

(Locked)

Community Manager
We recently hotfixed the Windsong and Elemental Force weapon enchants to improve their performance for many users. The important part for most players is that Windsong is now a useful enchant for all classes and specs (save Hunters who use scopes, and Death Knights who use Runeforging), since it will trigger on all damage or healing, be it spell, melee, or ranged, and direct or periodic. Elemental Force will also trigger from all damage, so is useful for all damage dealers.

Additionally, these two enchants use a new system for triggering, which we wanted to give some details on. These are the gritty details, which you do not need to understand in order to use these enchants, but we wanted to lay them out for the benefit of the theorycrafting community. If mathy simulations and modeling aren’t your thing, none of this will matter much to you.

We have had various methods for triggering procs throughout WoW’s history. Most procs fall into two categories for the past few years:

  • Relatively high but static proc chance, with a significant cooldown. Most trinkets and caster procs fall into this category. For example, a trinket may have a 30% chance to proc on hit, with a 55sec cooldown. This lets us balance the trinket with a pretty safe assumption of procing about once per minute. Unfortunately, since it’s so reliable, it doesn’t really feel like a random proc, but rather like an On Use trinket that’s just on auto-cast. The uptime won’t increase significantly with any stats with this type of proc.
  • Relatively low proc chance with some normalization based on weapon speed, typically referred to as ‘PPM’ (procs per minute). Most melee weapon enchants fall into this category. For example, a weapon enchant may have 3 PPM. That checks your weapon speed, and gives your attacks a % chance based on that. If you have a 3.6speed weapon, your attacks will have a 3(PPM) * 3.6(weaponspeed) / 60 (sec per min) = 18% chance. All your white and yellow attacks with that weapon will have an 18% chance to trigger the enchant. Despite being supposedly ‘3 PPM’, that really will result in significantly more than 3 procs per minute, since all of the special attacks can proc it. Since there is no cooldown involved here, this type of enchant can feel random and streaky, instead of reliable. That isn’t necessarily a bad thing though, as you are just as likely to get lucky and get several procs in a row, which can be exciting. Some stats, primarily haste, will increase the frequency of these procs. However, since they vary heavily based on weapon speed, and how many special attacks you’re doing, these can proc significantly more or less for one class/spec/weapon than another, making them difficult to balance.


So, there are pros and cons of both of those types of procs. We’re trying a new system for these enchants. This new system, nicknamed Real PPM, aims to give the random nature of procs, the scaling with haste, and the ability for us to balance them assuming a standard proc frequency. Here’s the short version of how you can expect them to function:

  • Windsong is 2 Real PPM, and Elemental Force is 10 Real PPM.
  • Come patch 5.1, Dancing Steel and Jade Spirit will be 2 Real PPM, River's Song will be 4 Real PPM, and Colossus will be 6 Real PPM
  • Regardless of how you’re attacking or healing, slow or fast, with DoTs or direct heals, whatever, you can expect to get the same proc frequency, on average.
  • Dual wielding and having both weapons enchanted with the same enchant will double the frequency of procs that you get.
  • This Real PPM is increased by your haste %. (The highest of your melee, ranged, or spell haste is chosen).
  • Simple as that. Whether you’re an Affliction Warlock dealing very frequent DoT ticks and Malefic Grasp ticks, or a Holy Paladin casting purely Holy Lights, or a Combat Rogue quickly attacking and using specials, or an Enhancement Shaman attacking with slow melee attacks and spells, or a Shadow Priest channeling Mind Sear on fifty Onyxian Whelps, you’ll get 2*Haste Windsong procs or 10*Haste Elemental Force procs per enchant per minute.
  • We’re excited to see how this proc system works out. If it works well, we may start using it for more types of procs. Feedback about how it feels is most welcome.


Here are even more nitty gritty details, if you’re interested:

  • It can proc from any damage/healing event. It keeps track of the last time it had a chance to proc for that enchant.
  • It calculates the difference in time since the last chance to proc. It uses that time to determine the chance for that event to trigger a proc.
  • For example, if you have 22% Haste, it was 1.4sec since the last chance to proc, and you’ve got Windsong, then the chance to proc is 2(ppm) * 1.22(haste) * 1.4(time since last chance) / 60 (sec per min) = 5.693%.
  • The ‘time since the last chance to proc’ is capped at 10sec, so that your first attack of a fight isn’t a guaranteed proc.


If you have any questions about this, please feel free to post them here, and we’ll try to answer them.
Edited by Daxxarri on 11/6/2012 4:33 PM PST
70 Orc Shaman
6290
Its nice and all that you've done this.
But now can you explain why Black Magic still procs from just targeting enemies?

I know it's an older enchant, and mostly irrelevant, but I still feel like it's a bug none the less, and should be fixed.
MVP
90 Worgen Warlock
10465
Thank you for finally fixing windsong. It makes grinding rep for the revered enchants not as pressing. Though I'll still be doing it.
90 Blood Elf Priest
12435
Getting 5 total procs in a 9:30 minute fight while our melee frequently got multiple stacks at the same time was fun.

Thanks for the fix.
90 Undead Warlock
9255
Thanks for fixing Windsong.

This gives more balance to the Haste vs Mastery debate for Aff locks, too.
90 Worgen Mage
20350
Thanks for the information! I had made a couple of Windsong threads today, on both my class and the bug report forum.

Is it intended that these enchants can be better than the Sha Crystal equivalents, ie: Jade Spirit? Typically the expensive enchants have granted more player power, but Windsong procs a whole lot, especially with Heroism, Icy Veins, and other Haste procs. I feel it might be too strong.

I feel like from a profession standpoint, enchanters might not be too happy either if their Sha Crystal enchants aren't the optimal option either.

My two cents thus far. I've been testing on dummies a lot today. Thanks!

PS: If it's really about 2.2ish PPM, then it should be right on par with Jade Spirit, but it should pull ahead for Fire at least which has two really strong secondary stats in Crit and Haste (going off Simc scale factors). That's one spec where I know at least it has the potential to be better.
Edited by Digerati on 10/15/2012 10:33 AM PDT
90 Blood Elf Priest
15545
I posted this on the hotfix list, but I'll say it again: THANK YOU for this change. As shadow spec I was using Power Torrent for the first couple of weeks. The instant after I read about this change I threw on a Windsong and have been enjoying the daylights out of it.

<3
90 Night Elf Hunter
11840
So a follow up Question:

How do you determine WHAT buff Windsong will Proc.?

... or is that part just a roll of the dice?

The tool tip says it will proc x, y or Z
90 Worgen Mage
20350
So a follow up Question:

How do you determine WHAT buff Windsong will Proc.?

... or is that part just a roll of the dice?

The tool tip says it will proc x, y or Z


Seems pretty random to me, small sample size though.
Edited by Digerati on 10/15/2012 10:33 AM PDT
90 Human Warlock
17825
Thanks for the info Daxx, but could you clarify a little more on Windsong - is it 2RPPM PER effect (haste proc, Crit Proc, Mastery Proc) - thus essentially 6RPPM among the 3 different buffs it can proc, or 2RPPM to get A proc at random?
85 Human Warlock
14370
How does this apply to Guardians and Ferals?
(I believe their swing speed is adjusted for them no matter the amount of haste.)
90 Worgen Mage
20350
10/15/2012 10:44 AMPosted by Thanatosia
Thanks for the info Daxx, but could you clarify a little more on Windsong - is it 2RPPM PER effect (haste proc, Crit Proc, Mastery Proc) - thus essentially 6RPPM among the 3 different buffs it can proc, or 2RPPM to get A proc at random?


2RPPM at random.
90 Pandaren Monk
8075
So I read the whole thing but am not quite clear on one thing.

As a dual wielding melee, I would frequently see double and sometimes even a triple proc of Windsong rolling at once, if only for a few brief seconds. And even outside of getting double procs, it was up quite often.

Does this new proc design for Windsong mean I'm going to see a decrease in procs, and thus a decrease in stacked up procs?

Thanks for anyone who can clarify this for me.
90 Worgen Mage
20350
How does this apply to Guardians and Ferals?
(I believe their swing speed is adjusted for them no matter the amount of haste.)


Swing speed shouldn't factor into this. It's just going off the character sheet haste I assume. Doesn't matter how you're attacking apparently. As long as you're using abilities, it'll proc at the intended rate.
Edited by Digerati on 10/15/2012 10:51 AM PDT
85 Troll Mage
15675
My only question about the "Real PPM" is if the new system ONLY applies to Enchant Weapon - Windsong, Enchant Weapon - Elemental Force, Enchant Weapon - Dancing Steel, Enchant Weapon - Colossus, and Enchant Weapon - River's Song; or if it is retro-active for ALL PPM abilities in the game. An example of this was the famous BC PPM enchant: Enchant Weapon - Mongoose.

As a reminder here are the original announcements of the proc rates:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6397900436?page=8#154

Ask, and ye shall receive:

•River's Song: 2PPM on melee attacks that land, or are dodged, or parried.
•Dancing Steel: 1PPM on melee attacks that land.
•Colossus: 3PPM on melee attacks that land, or are dodged, or parried, with a 3-second cooldown.
•Elemental Force: 5PPM on melee damage, or non-periodic spell damage/healing, with a 0.1-second cooldown.
•Jade Spirit: 10% chance on spell damage or healing, 50-second cooldown.
•Windsong: 1PPM on melee damage, or non-periodic spell damage/healing, with a 1-second cooldown.
Edited by Delritha on 10/15/2012 10:54 AM PDT
90 Worgen Mage
20350
10/15/2012 10:47 AMPosted by Kenjiryu
Does this new proc design for Windsong mean I'm going to see a decrease in procs, and thus a decrease in stacked up procs?


Afaik, this is referring to the latest hotfix that went in on Thursday, so there will be no change at this time.
90 Human Paladin
8535
Does this new proc design for Windsong mean I'm going to see a decrease in procs, and thus a decrease in stacked up procs?

Thanks for anyone who can clarify this for me.


The way that I read it, it does mean a possible and likely decrease in procs. The only possible effect a player can have on the enchant is to stack more haste. Weapon speed, special attacks, etc. no longer contribute to the chance to proc.
Windsong procs on my Recuperate tics and breaks me out of stealth. Quite troublesome in PVE and PVP situations.
90 Blood Elf Mage
5960
Yeah, I'd tend to think less RNG is a good thing.
This topic is locked.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]