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Before I'm accused of simply raging, I'd like to state that the first chance at loot you get from killing a boss is NOT what I am talking about in this post.
What I am talking about in this post are the Elder Charms of Good Fortune. For those unaware, you can turn in a quest to get three after obtaining 90 Lesser Charms of Good Fortune. These Elder Charms are able to be used after killing a boss, which allows you another random chance at loot. You can only hold 10 at a time, and can only get three per week.
The catch is, as stated above, they do not ensure loot. They only allow you another random chance to get it.
I've done LFR since it came out last week, and have done the new half implemented today, as well as having killed the Sha of Anger every week. I have obtained no loot whatsoever. I have used five bonus rolls, each having gotten me nothing but gold.
The bonus loot chance, I will admit, angers me greatly. However, as the bonus rolls are possible on normal-mode raids, the system does work a tad "fairer" the way it is now.
I realize now the problems that making the quest repeatable would cause. Instead of requesting the quest be made repeatable, I would like to request the bonus rolls ensure loot.
Edited by Wolvigar on 10/16/2012 1:53 PM PDT
No it would be awful if they did that.
People are drawing small sample sizes and using these as a forgone conclusion as to how things must be. Just because you aren't getting loot immediately doesn't mean other people aren't. Things TEND to average out over time. I've watched some people get extremely lucky while other people not so much.
The Elder Charms are an EXCELLENT addition to the game in THEIR CURRENT functionality. They allow us to get another chance on a boss which we NEED loot on and as of that gear up quicker. It allows for quicker gear on AVERAGE and removes some of the RNG factor that has been experienced throughout this game.
Why is it a bad idea to lift the cap? As it stands now to realistically min/max you need to do enough dailies to obtain 90 coins a week. 90 coins right now is roughly a day and a half of dailies. Perfectly reasonable in my opinion. You open the flood gates and allow us to get as many elder coins as we possibly can in one week and people will be forced (min/max perspective) to do EVERY SINGLE daily for pretty much ever.
It will force raiders to farm Galleon and Sha of Anger even more than they do now and it will force us to run LFR more than once a week to offload bonus coins at the start of a tier.
It's an absolutely awful idea. People are complaining already about being 'forced' to do dailies but at least their is an end in sight at the moment. Get exalted and now you only have to do a handful of dailies a week. Your idea would 'force' people to do every single daily, EVERY SINGLE DAY.
Of course people aren't forced to this and I know this is going to be your argument but my points above still stand. If there is one thing a lot of people in this game don't like, it's being forced to do something they don't like doing so they can do something they actually like doing.
Edited by Gròmmash on 10/16/2012 1:44 PM PDT
After thinking it through a moment, I suppose the weekly cap on the quest being removed would be a very bad idea. It would allow for infinite charm-farming, and I suppose would push people to do dailies infinitely.
In this case, I would request that the cap not be removed, but that the bonus rolls ensure loot.
What would be the point of that then?
Some level of farming is nice in the game and the devs aren't going to remove that. You 100% ensure loot from coins and a brand new instance could realistically be farmed out by a raid group or individual in a couple of weeks.
We never had an opportunity at multiple chances of loot before. It's certainly not needed but it does help a lot. We should be happy that we even get a 10-15% chance (whatever it is) at bringing up another piece of loot on an INDIVIDUAL level. Killing Heroic Stonguard last week and getting 6 items in our 10 man group is absolutely amazing, and that's all because of coins. It's not going to happen every single time but it does remove a lot of the RNG factor.
Elder coins would have been amazing on bosses with shared loot tables in DS. Those absurd trinkets would have been a lot more common.
Ensured loot, means that you would have a timetable to quit.
Blizzard doesnt like when a lot of people get BiS, then they quit.
Stop taking free epics, and throwing them back at Blizzard, you're acting like monkeys.
You're crying your bonus isn't good enough, the easier solution is to get rid of it.
Edited by Postonforums on 10/16/2012 2:08 PM PDT
You really don't see the problem with each player in the game having fairly easy access to three guaranteed items per week? It'd only take a couple weeks for an entire raid to be completely geared from an instance. Charms would provide more loot than the actual boss drops! (you won't see 30 boss drops in a 10 man unless you full clear all three raids, but a 10 man could generate 30 charms per week)
Most bosses only have 1-2 items that are useful for a given spec, so its not like there is a high chance of repeat gear on the bonus rolls, besides you'd probably also say you shouldn't be allowed to get something you already have in the first place.
If they ever were to do something like that, it'd have to be like a full 10 charms for ensured loot, and even that is a bit much.
It sounds nice, in the short term, but in the long term, you're talking about getting 3 peices of loot a week. That puts a timeline on doing a teir at about 5-6weeks.
I don't think it needs to be garunteed. I could see it increasing every time you lose, to mitigate it (say +5% every time you don't get it), if the amount of gear/ week stayed the same. Which the coins are pretty close to doing. Not perfect, but pretty good.
The thing you want to do, is not add more loot, you want to average out bad RNG, so no one gets frustrated, without increasing gearing too fast.
Look, I have had far less luck with RNG on those charms than you have and I do not think Elder Charms should ensure loot.
Loot is supposed to be a random thing, allowing the Charms to ensure loot is taking away the randomness of it. It just would not work.
I get the frustration, I really do. 4 Sha kills, 4-5? Galleon kills, 9 Elder Charm rolls, and 9 bosses in LFR and I haven't gotten a single piece of gear from any of that. Nor has my Monk with 3 Elder Charm rolls and 2 or 3 Sha kills gotten anything either.
It sucks, but RNG is RNG.
And when I raided normals in Cata, I would go several weeks without getting any loot either because the bosses refused to love me and my tankingness.
Nothing's different, you're just having bad luck with the RNG. Raid Finder or no, the game has always been like this. Hell, I've been running SM every day for that damned helm off Korloff and have yet to see it drop.
0/9 and counting on Charms.
No, they shouldn't ensure loot. The only way that would be ok is if Charms are made much, much harder to obtain. Right now you can get your Charms for the week by doing like 3 days of faction dailies. It would be the easiest loot to obtain, ever.
I like the idea of an extra chance, but the amount of charms I receive compared to only being able to turn in 90 a week is a little crazy. Just an idea, maybe it can be just one stack instead of 180 in each. I for one have 4 stacks ( Which might be minimal compared to others) and will grow even more my the end of this weekly reset with the amount of dailies there are. Sure I know that I dont have to do all my dailies right now, but some faction are pretty much mandatory if you lie progressing and working on achievements and such. The only change I suggest for these are stack size. Possibly 999 each stack.
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