Starfall on unwanted targets is bad play?

90 Night Elf Druid
15215
From Dev Tweets:
Starfall ignores CC, your state of combat, yet it's a huge DPS contribution. Why exactly isn't starfall fixed yet?

In general, we like players to have to have to pay attention when using AEs.


Okay ever since the "fix" in WOTLK (midway through ICC) where Starfall would not hit CC'd targets, or OOC mobs it was really just oversight on the devs part. During WOTLK + Cata, they were basically shifting responsibility of players' need to be more attentive.

Now, if there's a target that cannot be DPS'd, or should not be DPS'd, basically Moonkins must simply not use one of their primary DPS abilities (Starfall is more than 15-20% of total dmg done) because they are being more attentive.

I understand you wanting to do this for hurricane or typhoon, which are *targeted* abilities. The problem with Starfall is that the user has absolutely NO control over where it will land. How do you be more attentive with it except, not use it at all?

The simple solution is a major glyph that allows starfall to hit only your current target, and reduces number of stars by X. But of course, that's been suggested only a few too many times and the lack of balance glyphs (read: ZERO) that alter/interact with our primary damage spells is an old topic to complain about.

Please Blizzard, I hope whoever reads this understands the Balance Druid tree and reads the feedback that's been delivered in a very polite and constructive way before your own devs start telling us to be "more attentive"
Edited by Owlcapwn on 10/14/2012 7:22 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Druid
14435
I couldn't believe he actually said what he did. By "pay attention," is he seriously telling us to just not use an ability that constitutes like 1/5th of our dps? Really...?
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90 Human Paladin
10930
Yeah there were a few things from that round of tweets that left me scratching my head.

Namely Chaos Bolt's damage being justified because it's got a long rampup. Pretty sure he himself told us a while ago that just because something has a long rampup doesn't mean it should do ridiculous damage and potentially one-shot players. I don't have any personal issues with Chaos Bolt, haven't been killed by one yet, but what bugs me is him openly contradicting himself on design intent.
Edited by Sliphe on 10/14/2012 8:57 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
15215
10/14/2012 08:17 PMPosted by Prunefgt
I couldn't believe he actually said what he did. By "pay attention," is he seriously telling us to just not use an ability that constitutes like 1/5th of our dps? Really...?


I suppose.... but then again, I'm not really surprised. It's been more than 5 months of us telling them to add at least ONE glyph that would interact with our primary spells... Or return back glyph of focus. Or the fact that HOTW would have been OP...

After a while, (at least w/out communication) it starts to feel that it's all falling on deaf ears or blind eyes
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100 Human Paladin
14120
I guess it's back to being Starfail
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90 Night Elf Druid
15215
10/14/2012 11:20 PMPosted by Dekkar
I guess it's back to being Starfail


That at a time where boomies are lowest ranged dps :S (ahead of maybe one hunter spec, but at least one or maybe 2 hunter specs are above us)
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90 Worgen Druid
11265
yea i was fairly frustrated when i read that too. basically the guy is saying, "oh well if you have adds nearby just dont use it at all". and then in the same thesis, they say "we want moonkins to switch between eclipse, we want lunar to be more on single target and solar for aoe. oh but you can use starfall only sometimes".

- starfalls cd reset everytime you hit lunar [check]
- celestial alignment resets starfall's cd, 3min cd [check]
- natures vigil 3min cd, incarnation 3min cd [check]
- oh hey adds nearby, guess cant use starfall even though my UI is literally ripping itself apart saying ITS READY USE IT. [check]

by the logic of that statement. I guess when you do get to use starfall, without the presence of adds, it should be a gynormous achievment because you paid attention that nothing was around. theyll mail you a cookie.
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81 Human Warrior
9530
The tweets always bring great joy


It doesn't surprise me you feel energy starved if you went from Dragon Soul epics to MoP blues. More haste will change things.


No !@#$. Most rogues know that your haste, and energy regen, are going to drop from 85->90, it doesn't change the fact that gameplay is BORING with low energy regen.
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100 Tauren Druid
16755
10/14/2012 08:17 PMPosted by Prunefgt
I couldn't believe he actually said what he did. By "pay attention," is he seriously telling us to just not use an ability that constitutes like 1/5th of our dps? Really...?


I wouldn't care a bit about this issue if it wasn't such a significant part of our rotation. It makes me feel paranoid and there's a big difference between being aware of our surroundings and being just plain paranoid about it.
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90 Human Monk
17840
I'm looking forward to see boomkins "paying attention" during Wind Lord for example. And by that I mean not using Starfall at all, because you don't have room space to be 40yd from CC'd targets, and you won't want to tell your entire raid to shift positions and/or change strats just to allow that.

And it'll be a sizable dps loss in a fight that'd otherwise be very friendly to it, since it'd allow all 20 stars to be used. But if it's of any consolation, resto druids can't use NV on it either.

Without Glyph of Focus (reduces the radius by 50%) boomkins have effectively no control over it, since it's extremely rare to be in a situation you can be that far from targets you don't want to hit. It's not a matter of paying attention, it's pretty binary almost every time: you either can use it or you can't.

I personally posted about it a handful of times on beta forums and saw no response, so the tweet wasn't particularly surprising or disappointing.
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90 Night Elf Druid
15215
I'm looking forward to see boomkins "paying attention" during Wind Lord for example. And by that I mean not using Starfall at all, because you don't have room space to be 40yd from CC'd targets, and you won't want to tell your entire raid to shift positions and/or change strats just to allow that.
...
I personally posted about it a handful of times on beta forums and saw no response, so the tweet wasn't particularly surprising or disappointing.


Paying Attention to starfall also means we're being sat on Challenge modes. Need a CC? Too bad, can't use starfall? Oh what's that - this boomy doesn't do much dps does it?

Starfall is our bread and butter CD - it's supposed to be used on CD every time - it hitting CC'd mobs is just neglected coding on Blizzard's part - especially since it was okay for an expansion and a quarter.

And after 4+ months of Beta, we're still the only spec in the game that have ZERO glyphs interacting with our primary spells.... And with posts like the one on the tweets today, I'm beginning to think my theory of "no one probably plays moonkin at blizzard seriously" is becoming seemingly true.
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90 Gnome Mage
11450
It seems to be the direction things are going. Mages got hit with something similar. We now have to cast AoE bomb spells as part of our main rotation, or else we miss out on both the DPS from the bomb, but the DPS from the procs the bombs provide (procs that used to come from our main nukes).

But at least with mages they came up with somewhat of a compromise. Next patch they are giving us a minor glyph that reduces the area of effect for our bombs and other cleave abilities to 5 yards. Of course, then that makes our AoE bombs less effective when we actually need them for AoE... Guess we'll see how it goes.
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90 Night Elf Druid
15215
It seems to be the direction things are going. Mages got hit with something similar. We now have to cast AoE bomb spells as part of our main rotation, or else we miss out on both the DPS from the bomb, but the DPS from the procs the bombs provide (procs that used to come from our main nukes).

But at least with mages they came up with somewhat of a compromise. Next patch they are giving us a minor glyph that reduces the area of effect for our bombs and other cleave abilities to 5 yards. Of course, then that makes our AoE bombs less effective when we actually need them for AoE... Guess we'll see how it goes.


Your AOE Bombs make up for what % of your total DPS? Do bombs have a 40-yard *target* range? Starfall is falling between 15-20% of our DPS - on ANY fight. Be it single target or multi-target. With bombs making up for a far less significant amount of your dmg, and being less problematic, you are still being looked at (with a MINOR glyph mind you) and the problem being given at least a potential solution.

We (Boomkins) on the other hand are being shown the finger.
Edited by Owlcapwn on 10/15/2012 7:53 PM PDT
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I'm looking forward to see boomkins "paying attention" during Wind Lord for example. And by that I mean not using Starfall at all, because you don't have room space to be 40yd from CC'd targets, and you won't want to tell your entire raid to shift positions and/or change strats just to allow that.

And it'll be a sizable dps loss in a fight that'd otherwise be very friendly to it, since it'd allow all 20 stars to be used. But if it's of any consolation, resto druids can't use NV on it either.

Without Glyph of Focus (reduces the radius by 50%) boomkins have effectively no control over it, since it's extremely rare to be in a situation you can be that far from targets you don't want to hit. It's not a matter of paying attention, it's pretty binary almost every time: you either can use it or you can't.

I personally posted about it a handful of times on beta forums and saw no response, so the tweet wasn't particularly surprising or disappointing.


Priest level 90 talents are in a similar boat.

Halo has a huge radius, and Cascade will pretty much automatically hit everything in the room, so on a fight like Wind Lord, we're forced into Divine Star.

It's not nearly as bad as what Moonkin have, since while our level 90 talents do make up a large portion of dps, Divine Star excels in a fight where Halo and Cascade are hindrances so we have an option to turn to while Balance Druids just have to not use one of their high damaging attacks, but it's still kind of annoying.
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90 Night Elf Druid
15215

Priest level 90 talents are in a similar boat.

Halo has a huge radius, and Cascade will pretty much automatically hit everything in the room, so on a fight like Wind Lord, we're forced into Divine Star.

It's not nearly as bad as what Moonkin have, since while our level 90 talents do make up a large portion of dps, ]Divine Star excels in a fight where Halo and Cascade are hindrances so we have an option to turn to while Balance Druids just have to not use one of their high damaging attacks, but it's still kind of annoying.


Bolded and underlined for emphasis. We've been begging for options to deal with situations where our core spells are problematic. It's a problem in Challenge modes. It's a problem in any fights which required controlled + sustained DPS.

My burst right now is absolutely insane. With CDs, trinkets, and potion - I can surpass 180k DPS for ~ 30 seconds, w/out any gimmick buffs. And my gear isn't that great. With decent gear, I'm sure boomies are going upwards of 200k. But then when it comes to sustained DPS, we're one of the worst specs. On top of that, our movement DPS is literally non-existant. The only way to DPS on the move is moonfire or sunfire spam - which, if you had a NG or trinket proc buffed MF/SnF on the target - you don't want to override that.

Having to deal with all this was bad enough, but not enough by blizzard's standards I suppose. Be more attentive and do 20% less DPS. And have fun while at it. Yea right....
Edited by Owlcapwn on 10/16/2012 8:26 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Druid
11280
I was absolutely aghast when I read that tweet. It really made me wonder what was the point of making Starfall's cooldown reset on reaching Lunar Eclipse. It seems like they can't decide if it's supposed to be a normal part of our rotation or not.
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100 Night Elf Druid
11280
So this morning I just read about the new Mage glyph, Glyph of Discreet Magic. It prevents Fireblast from spreading DOT's to potential targets more than 5 yards away from the original target. I can only guess this is to help Fire Mages avoid aggroing unintended targets while soloing.

Blizzard, we really, really need you to re-evaluate Starfall's current mechanics, and preferably fix it without making us use a glyph slot as a work-around.
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90 Night Elf Druid
15215
So this morning I just read about the new Mage glyph, Glyph of Discreet Magic. It prevents Fireblast from spreading DOT's to potential targets more than 5 yards away from the original target. I can only guess this is to help Fire Mages avoid aggroing unintended targets while soloing.


Or kill unwanted targets in raids. Also, it's a minor glyph, not a major one.

So Mage bombs make up for less than 10% (maybe even 5?) of their total DPS, and they get a minor glyph to crank the most out of it - when they are top 5 DPS.

While Boomkins cannot use the ability that makes up for 15-20% of our total DPS due to it hitting unwanted targets. All of this while:

1. We still have ZERO glyphs that interact with our primary DPS spells
2. Our lvl 87 ability gives us a beneficial (i.e. DPS increase) spell when we have either (a) Mage in group, or (b) Enh shaman in group.

That's right folks - Boomkins need to pay attention while using AE abilities. /sarcasm

Trust me blizzard, we're paying attention all right. It's high time that you started paying attention to the Balance druid tree.

On Topic: I was forced to go resto during Spiritbreaker last night because starfall was killing spirit totem when we did not want it to. So yea, it DOES matter.

Edit: removed my opinionated statement
Edited by Owlcapwn on 10/18/2012 7:25 PM PDT
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100 Dwarf Hunter
18310
10/18/2012 11:23 PMPosted by Bándet
Seems to me they need to make a glyph that makes starfall not aoe, or do it like that new mage glyph where it only aoe's targets within 5 yards of the target.
They need to do something like that for Barrage, too; I'd love to use it in dungeons, but because Barrage LOVES to pull targets I'm not in combat with, using it is a ticket to getting swarmed by mobs and dying. So I'm left with Glaive Toss for my level 90 talent, since tanks don't like the knockback on Powershot.
Edited by Aoir on 10/18/2012 11:33 PM PDT
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