Disappointing Mistweaver Mastery

90 Pandaren Shaman
12025
I think it's fine to expect players to move towards the green balls of goodness, intelligent players will do so. Heck I like seeing how many of them I can pick up, it's like a little mini game. :P

That being said, everyone else's mastery is an entirely passive thing, not reliant on another player's cooperation. It's similar to the difficulties with things like Symbiosis and Lightwell - the caster's benefit is entirely reliant on someone else's play, and that can be frustrating.

I don't think making the orbs manually controllable or explodable in any way is ideal - they should remain an entirely passive thing. I feel the best way to address this is to make the orbs float around, either by moving towards players in general, or moving towards low health players specifically, or by moving in small circles or just drifting in random directions.
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I sometimes feel as though our mastery is what it is because of Diablo 3, which would have been popular in the Blizzard offices while they were designing Mists.

Someone must have thought that the health globe mechanic from that game would have transferred over well into Warcraft, ignoring the lessons Lightwell has taught for years. Tanks and DPS should not have to worry about adding movement to heal themselves on top of all the other mechanics they have to deal with already.

A constructive solution: Have an expiring globe heal the target that spawned it for 50%, even if it overheals. This rewards players who actively run through them before they expire by granting the full heal, while still making it somewhat of an attractive, but not overpowered, stat for Mistweavers.
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90 Pandaren Monk
11210
Currently top secret.


Then it's also currently worthless.

Well sort of. Melee have the easiest time picking up the orbs because they can DPS and move easily - casters, not so much. It's a valid point depending on who you're talking to, which I guess to some degree highlights a problem with the mastery. With a lot of fights being heavy DPS checks, I can understand how someone might feel like sparing one second to get a heal on the ground is a bit inefficient.


It's more a question of usefulness. If you have two healers, one of which can do 50k HPS normally, and the other can do 45k HPS normally plus another 5k from orbs that people need to take a second or so to run into, why would you ever take the second one? Yes, people being responsible for their own survival is a good thing, but that still doesn't negate the fact that a monk's mastery lowers raid DPS to achieve the same result (in addition to taking up some of each raider's precious attention, which can be an issue on heroic fights).
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90 Dwarf Warrior
14765
It's like if holy priest's mastery made lightwells.
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93 Human Monk
15875
Now here's an idea for those little yummy buggers: healing chi spheres spawned by Mastery procs would pop after a set amount of time if not used, and would heal adjacent players for a % of the total heal the sphere had.
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1 Tauren Warrior
0
If you have two healers, one of which can do 50k HPS normally, and the other can do 45k HPS normally plus another 5k from orbs that people need to take a second or so to run into, why would you ever take the second one?


In that hypothetical? You wouldn't, but with Mistweavers it's more like 50k vs 48k + 7k though.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9590
10/18/2012 09:10 AMPosted by Staccato
From what I've heard/seen, in 25s monk mastery is actually pretty spectacular because there are plenty of people to pick up orbs regardless of where they're standing. Even in 10s on certain fights it's been about 10%+ of my healing, which is right where our mastery should be at anyway.


The reason why it scales so well in 25m though isn't strictly because people are covering enough area to use them. The real reason is because the scaling factors from the 2 core 25m spells for aoe healing (SCK+Chi Burst) are balance around either hitting 6 targets. As such, anytime either of these hits more than two targets, your effective mastery for those spell cast was significantly higher than what's listed in your character tab

I've been asking around a few times for a fix on that particular issue so that they can eventually "fix" mastery for 10m one day...

Also wtb orbs slowly converging towards statue
Edited by Keau on 12/6/2012 9:55 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
9590
1.) How about Fistweaving- The more mastery you have the more your Fistweaving % heals for.

2.) Bonus healing from statues- The more mastery you have the more you statue heals for.

3.) MP5- The more mastery you have the more useful your Spirit is? I really don't care much for this idea, but I would take it over our current situation.


While I would like to see it revamped somehow, neither of these 3 are a viable alternative without multiple subsequent major overhauls...and even then. Explanations:

1. Creates a major balance issue between fistweavers and casterweavers and since one or the other will always be ahead, it will make mastery either a full waste or an absurd godly stat depending on which playstyle is best at a given point in time.

2. This would kill MW even more in PvP and turn their mastery into the single only completely useless mastery for PvP. It also creates a similar discrepency as #1 between fistweave and casterweave since fistweave bemefits from statue far far more than casterweave does

3. Just won't happen they've already given us crit as a secondary mean for mana regeneration. It is also completely unappealing from a design standpoint. It would also create even further mana balance issues

Btw I'm not trying to be an !@#, as I said I'd love to see an overhaul and ideas are very welcome, I'm just trying to be realistic and logic with regards to those specific ideas. Keep thinking :P
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90 Pandaren Monk
7105
Here's an idea: what if our mastery orbs slowly drifted toward our serpent statue? We tend to put the statue near where our clumps are going to be anyway, and it creates a nice healing zone that people can run to. Additionally, if we want, we can move that zone by moving the statue, but at cost of the mana it takes to summon the statue.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10385
The orbs should be replaced with a lightning/watershield mechanic. The person who proc'ed the orb will be buffed with a swirling green ball that will heal them the next time they take damage.

Edit : Houseduck already suggested this on post #39.
Edited by Baozi on 12/6/2012 11:16 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
7105
12/06/2012 11:11 PMPosted by Baozi
The orbs should be replaced with a lightning/watershield mechanic


I'd be surprised if they went with a no thought mechanic after they specifically went out of their way to try to create something more interesting than, say, druid's automatic +healing. They worked hard to make the monk playstyle more different and interesting. I know that as it stands, our mastery is undependable and bounces all over the place fight to fight, but it IS interesting and different.

That's why I made my suggestion about having the mastery orbs drawn to the serpent statue. It creates what a lot of people are asking for in that it makes a kind of aoe healing zone, albeit slow, that zone is movable, that zone can be somewhere the monk isn't (put the statue on ranged, then monk can use chi torpedo/SCK on melee or vice versa), and increases the likelihood that people will stumble into the orbs (or the orbs stumble into people...just having the orbs move at all will make them more likely for someone to hit them).

Blizz keeps the dynamic of the mastery orbs, and we get more use out of them, and more interesting utility (creating a passive light healing zone that I can move sounds super useful and interesting to me). Additionally, they already have the mechanic worked out (hello, sha of fear pandas), so all it would take would be copying the mechanic and balancing the numbers.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9590
@Pandormoous

beat you by 2 posts (and a few weeks on monk forums) with regards to orbs converging towards statue.

The real issue though is it creates a "raid cooldown" to the point where the reverse behavior will be seen aka you will want to ask players not to use the orbs such that on dmg heavy periods, tank or whole raid can move on top of the statue and make it a joke.
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90 Pandaren Monk
7105
Not if they decrease the time that the orbs last (which I'm almost certain they would do if they ever made them easier to get).
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50 Human Priest
14170
Why not just give the orbs a bigger "burst" animation and a bigger range they can be burst from? It makes them easier to use without completely removing the raid cooperation side of it. The bigger animation is so the people using them can see it actually work.

Another option is to add a short-term buff to them that's small but worth getting to offset the movement people have to do to get the orbs. After popping an orb you would receive an eight second buff that gives you a random haste/crit/mastery buff. It wouldn't be a huge buff but it might make it easier for people to justify moving for the orb.
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90 Human Monk
10570
I wish my skill mattered at all in regard to my mastery. It's not like I can even choose spells that will proc my mastery like I was able to on my paladin. I honestly don't care that it's doing 10-14% of my overall healing.

The whole "move the balls towards someone needing healing" is just a bandaid for the problem. It would end up with the throughput of each ball being nerfed but still having the same problems coming out of it on no skill involvement. Hell, people are already running into enough balls on accident for it to be a chunk of our healing, not sure exactly what making the balls gravitate towards players will actually accomplish.[

The mastery (and all masteries) should have some sort of healer involvement associated with them, even if it's something as simple as spell choices effecting the mastery. Maybe that means some interaction between Healing Sphere (spell) and mastery. Maybe it's something completely different.

For example...
Option 1) Orbs that spawn will rotate around you stacking up to 5 times. If an orb hits another player, then it will be consumed and heal that player. So, now when you have mastery procs you run through people to heal them. Mastery increases the chance for the spell to proc and the amount that it heals for.

Option 2) Get rid of the idea of balls altogether and have it be a base increase of the amount transferred by your statue for certain spells. Eminence, Crackling Jade Lightning, Soothing Mists, etc. Just make it so that it's useful and covers common spells.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9590
12/07/2012 01:02 PMPosted by Niktesla
Another option is to add a short-term buff to them that's small but worth getting to offset the movement people have to do to get the orbs. After popping an orb you would receive an eight second buff that gives you a random haste/crit/mastery buff. It wouldn't be a huge buff but it might make it easier for people to justify moving for the orb.


I would LOVE that but it would be far too OP. To the point where we would litterally become the mandatory-to be stacked healers- for cutting edge progression on rough enrage timers. Why? Because the truth is every dps class has a mean to not lose any DPS over small movement. It would just require slightly more awareness...which most elite players can afford. They just don't do it atm because the hassle/difficulty level for something that will be picked up by another healer anyway isn't worth it to their role.

12/07/2012 01:59 PMPosted by Xinxou
Then combine 1 and 2. If your fistweaving you get + healing % from your damage and if your channeling SM +to % healing recived from statue. I thinks it's totaly doable, and works into what monks are suppose to do. You could even give the bounus by stance your in. Monks have the possiblity to be able to heal in multiple ways which would be the fist class I have seen with such varitiy in single spec. I just want blizzard to nurture freedom in the way we heal, instead of nerfing to force us to heal one way.


No...combining 1 and 2 is double dipping in favor of fistweaving.Both #1 AND #2 favor fistweaving more than casterweaving. JSS contributes to more healing when fistweaving than when casterweaving.

-------------------------------
Onto a different Idea now

Based on our current mana issues I'd love to see something like
[your chi generating abilities have a mastery% chance to generate an additionnal chi, If a Chi is generated in such a way beyond the maximum, a chi sphere will be summoned nearby]

But realistically having 2 secondary stats affect mana regen directly would force blizz to do major numbers retuning every new tier.
Edited by Keau on 12/7/2012 8:43 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
11830
I personally despise our mastery, despite what logs might say. I hate having the only healer mastery whose usefulness completely depends on the actions of others. Whether or not my mastery is useful is wholly beyond my control, and that is what I hate about it. Every other healer gets to make a choice regarding mastery in their gearing, because they know how useful (or not) its going to be for them, meanwhile for us its a complete crapshoot if it spawns on the right players, if they notice the orbs while simultaneously noticing they are injured, and deciding to grab the orb before they get a heal from one of the healers.

The other major problem I have is the fact that our mastery scales multiplicatively with raid size. In 25 mans, we hit more targets with more spells (especially SCK and Chi Burst), and thus generate more orbs due to more heals. In addition, since there are 2.5x as many people, the chances of people bumping into said spheres is also much greater. This is why it does very well in 25 mans, but underperforms in most 10 man fights, and is absolutely terrible for 5 mans or pvp.

I would really like to see our mastery changed to something that is still useful, while being under my control as a healer.
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90 Pandaren Monk
8130
Even in 25s mastery is worthless comparing to the extra throughput via crit.

On paper it looks "ALRIGHT" (actually its well behind crit and int for every spell except SCK/chi burst on high # of targets.)...but not really. In actuality, it's even worse.

So yeah.
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