Blizzard's stance on ninja looting

100 Orc Hunter
8890
so? players who want it changed are still going to ask blizzard to change it...

i fail to see why you posted it


Just because "You" want it changed... they wont change it because too many people want it left alone. If a majority of the player base was upset... then they would consider revising it.

Personally I am tired of all the "whine" threads about someone losing out cause of xxx rolled for OS...

Otherwise the OP just wanted people to know ---

Loot system working as intended...

in part there was another thread earlier that capped -- a guy filed a ticket on another player because a healer "needed" a DPS piece for OS...
blizzard has changed things in the past, blizzard can change things in the future...

i dont want it changed, i just pointed out that players who DO want it changed will not stop asking blizzard to change it just because you post Blizzard's current stance about something that some players DO want changed...
Edited by Zaxan on 10/17/2012 4:58 PM PDT
90 Human Warrior
13880
When I tank in LFG I don't roll offspec w/o checking first but thank's to all these whine threads I think I'm gonna start.

If.
You.
Want.
Loot.
Set.
Asides.
Run.
With.
Friends.
Or.
Guildies.


I mentioned this RIGHT at the front page, but some seem to skip over it so they can continue raging..oh well.
90 Dwarf Warrior
0
10/17/2012 04:56 PMPosted by Brindie
Just because "You" want it changed... they wont change it because too many people want it left alone. If a majority of the player base was upset... then they would consider revising it.

Yeah remember the uproar when they added a new roll system to LFR so this crap didn't happen? Oh wait everyone was fine with it. Except I guess people who wanted fast queues and to gear up their offspecs.

10/17/2012 04:55 PMPosted by Blutarsky
When I tank in LFG I don't roll offspec w/o checking first but thank's to all these whine threads I think I'm gonna start.

Yeah strike out at random and uninvolved people, your superior position in this discussion is all but cemented, you jack off.
100 Orc Hunter
8890
When I tank in LFG I don't roll offspec w/o checking first but thank's to all these whine threads I think I'm gonna start.

If.
You.
Want.
Loot.
Set.
Asides.
Run.
With.
Friends.
Or.
Guildies.


I mentioned this RIGHT at the front page, but some seem to skip over it so they can continue raging..oh well.
players who want to use their personal loot rules dont want to form their own groups with other players who want to use their personal loot rules, they prefer joining groups of random players and crying when random players dont want to use their personal loot rules
Edited by Zaxan on 10/17/2012 5:00 PM PDT
19 Worgen Druid
210


Sure. And insisting nobody else can roll on your gear is selfish, too.

The whole "you're selfish, no YOU'RE selfish" debate gets tiresome really fast.

We're all selfish. We all want to upgrade our characters. Pointing out each other's obvious selfishness is a complete waste of time and doesn't do anything to further the discussion.

Humans are selfish. Great, we've established that. Let's move on.


Oh, what the hell.

How is it 'selfish' to presume a main-spec's more important than an off-spec? Define Main vs Off. How is it selfish to pass someone gear because it's an upgrade to the spec they're performing? How it an upgrade to expect the same common sense in return?

Oh that's right - braindeads arguing for the sake of it.


Nice. To make your point that you have the moral upper hand here, you start insulting people. Not the most effective way to prove you're the better man, eh?

Anyway, you're framing your argument in the most flattering way possible. That's understandable, but again, both sides can do that. Example:

MS>OS: I'm a good person because I pass on gear to the guy who needs it for his main spec!
MS=OS: I'm a good person because I don't try to prevent someone from rolling on gear for his off-spec!

Now, let's turn it around and prove that people on both sides are complete douchewads:

MS=OS: You just want to lock other people out of rolling on your main spec so you can have it all for yourself, you selfish douchewad!
MS>OS: Oh yeah? You just want to be able to roll on gear for both your specs, you selfish douchwad!

If you're going to try to argue selfishness on either side, there is a balancing argument for the opposition to use to counter it.

The truth here is that neither approach is inherently more selfish than the other; it's all just a matter of perspective.
Edited by Shuck on 10/17/2012 5:02 PM PDT
Community Manager
Just wanted to set the record straight for those who aren't quite aware of it.

Ninja Looting: Blizzard's Stance

Have a nice day. :)


Thanks! I was getting ready to link that in that other thread, but it capped before I could.

I think it's important to note that our support policies match what's reasonably enforceable, and this really can't be a conversation about our support team making the right or wrong decisions, or helping or not helping. It's unreasonable for them to act as arbiters for every piece of loot that drops in every dungeon for every player. I hope that's something we can all agree with.

What can and should be discussed, and something we've been discussing a bit more internally, is the loot rules themselves to potentially prevent the issue in the first place. Clearly the current dungeon loot rules are fairly lax to allow for people to gear up in different ways. We (at least currently) want people to be able to gear up to tank by DPSing, or being able to help out others by healing when they really just want to DPS in their weekly raid. We want to allow them to run dungeons over and over to make up for bad luck in their drops. Just with those two things combined there will be people in your groups rolling on items you believe to be better for you.

One side issue that's made this all seem much worse is that with the launch of Mists a lot of items were tagged incorrectly, leading to people being able to roll on items they just have no business being able to roll on regardless of specs available to them. That makes the system just seem broken, when it's only a couple items that are essentially 'bugged'. We of course want to get to those bugs as quickly as possible.

There are clear benefits to allowing people to roll on off-spec items, or run dungeons over and over to try to get an item (or even just because they enjoy dungeons!). There are also clear issues it can cause when the factor of who 'deserves an item more' comes into it. Being matched with strangers you can never truly know someone else's intentions, and conclusions are easy to jump to. The converse though, where you can only roll on your current spec, is a system where you're locked into gearing up a specific way, and discourages (or maybe completely blocks) changing roles or even gearing up an off-spec - even if no one else wants an item.

There are many considerations to be made, but the discussion of LFD vs LFR loot systems is a larger one than even just this issue, and the devs seem intent on discussing it more and more as this expansion rolls on.

Until then, if you want to ensure you get the drop you want, I really recommend forming a group with trusted friends and guild mates if at all possible. Plus you can talk trash on them the whole time, which makes everything with friends more fun! ;)
Edited by Bashiok on 10/17/2012 5:09 PM PDT
90 Human Death Knight
5590
10/17/2012 05:06 PMPosted by Bashiok
Plus you can talk trash on them the whole time, which makes everything with friends more fun! ;)


I agree with this part most of all!
1 Tauren Priest
0
A random person on the street is able to punch you in the face.

A random person in a LFD group is able to need stuff that isn't for their chosen (See: The option he/she intentionally picked without any outside coercion) role.

If you want to say, "If they're able to do it then it's fine", then I hope every other random person you see in public punches you.

An inconsiderate selfish jerk hiding behind a link saying it's not bannable is still an inconsiderate selfish jerk.


^
No one cares that it's not bannable. They care that people are so rude and inconsiderate of others. But hey, I'm not the person everyone is going to dislike.

But for every item I've lost due to a jerk, I've gotten something else by luck afterwards. I'd prefer to call it karma.
It sucked that I lost Al'ar from helping a nub do the run, and on the 2% chance, it dropped and was theirs without even a "Thank you."
Want to know karma? Doing it again and having it drop just for me, directly after that.

I'm sorry that jerks exist in the world, but it'll come back around sooner or later... for you or for me. And I'd encourage fellow players to look at it that way.
It is frustrating losing items to people who don't even need it after many runs, but good things can happen.
I've passed on the trinket in WoE many times just to let nice people have it instead. I've also had people give me things I needed in LFR, because they were nice people too. Don't let the bad people bring you down because nice people will make it better or RNG will, but either way, their trolling doesn't last long.
19 Worgen Druid
210
10/17/2012 05:10 PMPosted by Ajule
Plus you can talk trash on them the whole time, which makes everything with friends more fun! ;)


I agree with this part most of all!


Funny, when I group with friends, we usually trash-talk Bashiok. And after all these years we still haven't run out of material.
100 Orc Hunter
8890
10/17/2012 05:06 PMPosted by Bashiok
Until then, if you want to ensure you get the drop you want, I really recommend forming a group with trusted friends and guild mates if at all possible. Plus you can talk trash on them the whole time, which makes everything with friends more fun! ;)


10/17/2012 04:59 PMPosted by Zaxan
players who want to use their personal loot rules dont want to form their own groups with other players who want to use their personal loot rules, they prefer joining groups of random players and crying when random players dont want to use their personal loot rules
90 Undead Mage
16325
Just wanted to set the record straight for those who aren't quite aware of it.

[url="https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/ninja-looting-blizzard-s-stance"]Ninja Looting: Blizzard's Stance[/url]

Have a nice day. :)


Thanks! I was getting ready to link that in that other thread, but it capped before I could.

I think it's important to note that our support policies match what's reasonably enforceable, and this really can't be a conversation about our support team making the right or wrong decisions, or helping or not helping. It's unreasonable for them to act as arbiters for every piece of loot that drops in every dungeon for every player. I hope that's something we can all agree with.

What can and should be discussed, and something we've been discussing a bit more internally, is the loot rules themselves to potentially prevent the issue in the first place. Clearly the current dungeon loot rules are fairly lax to allow for people to gear up in different ways. We (at least currently) want people to be able to gear up to tank by DPSing, or being able to help out others by healing when they really just want to DPS in their weekly raid. We want to allow them to run dungeons over and over to make up for bad luck in their drops. Just with those two things combined there will be people in your groups rolling on items you believe to be better for you.

One side issue that's made this all seem much worse is that with the launch of Mists a lot of items were tagged incorrectly, leading to people being able to roll on items they just have no business being able to roll on regardless of specs available to them. That makes the system just seem broken, when it's only a couple items that are essentially 'bugged'. We of course want to get to those bugs as quickly as possible.

There are clear benefits to allowing people to roll on off-spec items, or run dungeons over and over to try to get an item (or even just because they enjoy dungeons!). There are also clear issues it can cause when the factor of who 'deserves an item more' comes into it. Being matched with strangers you can never truly know someone else's intentions, and conclusions are easy to jump to. The converse though, where you can only roll on your current spec, is a system where you're locked into gearing up a specific way, and discourages (or maybe completely blocks) changing roles or even gearing up an off-spec - even if no one else wants an item.

There are many considerations to be made, but the discussion of LFD vs LFR loot systems is a larger one than even just this issue, and the devs seem intent on discussing it more and more as this expansion rolls on.

Until then, if you want to ensure you get the drop you want, I really recommend forming a group with trusted friends and guild mates if at all possible. Plus you can talk trash on them the whole time, which makes everything with friends more fun! ;)


Just a heads up for the bugs / incorrectly flagged stuff you mentioned, bashiok.
I think there is a mail item in scholomance mages can roll need on, last time i done scholo i saw that and chuckled, but didnt think too much of it at the time
EDIT: The shivbreakers vest was the peice i was thinking of
Edited by Mesphito on 10/17/2012 5:18 PM PDT
58 Gnome Death Knight
0
There is also the aspect that someone like me--- I hate running dungeons in any kind of group. I like to solo older instances for mounts or just the fun of it. To improve on this ability in the past required me to run heroics etc even though I wasn't interested in any group function. Allowing me to offspec gear my character helped alot as doing heroics i would queue in as DPS, but I wanted tank type gear to solo stuff. I didn't trust myself enough to just tank the heroics and probably saved other players heartache by going DPS..

would you rather have someone that don't know how to tank jump in and tank a heroic just because they were forced to only loot in their MS.... you will see a lot more failures as groups...

me rolling OS actually saves you getting a horrid tank... ;) (I would never roll on a bugged item... its only a few gold I would get from it -- not worth the time for the heartache it would cause)
90 Human Warrior
13880
Yea, The Bug allowed a Priest to roll need on the 2 Handed Sword from Scholomance, we laughed afterwards and at the end of the run, She gave me the sword.
90 Human Death Knight
5590
Funny, when I group with friends, we usually trash-talk Bashiok. And after all these years we still haven't run out of material.


Clearly your friends aren't as lame as mine.
98 Night Elf Warrior
7045
Good to have this clarified more. The old community's honor system of not rolling on off spec is something we're supposed to move past then.

As I'm from the old days, I am uncomfortable with this policy. It still seems very selfish to a lot of people who leveled in that old environment, so this is going to take getting used to.
100 Troll Rogue
17085
10/17/2012 04:23 PMPosted by Erras
Its a shame most people do not know this info already. A lot of whining might not happen if they did.


majority of the whining is because of people who play their spec.. only too lose it to a class playing a different spec at the time... personally idc (stuff will drop again) but i understand the frustration of players who feel that way...
Edited by Kabookie on 10/17/2012 5:29 PM PDT
81 Human Warrior
9530
A random person on the street is able to punch you in the face.

A random person in a LFD group is able to need stuff that isn't for their chosen (See: The option he/she intentionally picked without any outside coercion) role.

If you want to say, "If they're able to do it then it's fine", then I hope every other random person you see in public punches you.

An inconsiderate selfish jerk hiding behind a link saying it's not bannable is still an inconsiderate selfish jerk.


You are being silly if you compare being punched in the face equivalent to someone rolling need on gear they are going to use, even if it is for their offspec.
90 Pandaren Shaman
5990
10/17/2012 05:18 PMPosted by Brindie
would you rather have someone that don't know how to tank jump in and tank a heroic just because they were forced to only loot in their MS.... you will see a lot more failures as groups...


Why yes, yes I would! I love tanks in mostly DPS gear (This applying to only plate tanks of course) with no clue what they're doing, because they need to gear up because crybabies whine on the forums about people needing gear for their other spec. Nothing says fun like spam healing the DK with mitigation equal to my holy pally!

I don't cry when Druids/Priests/Shamans/Paladins/Monks roll on healing pieces over me; I can run crap all day AND get spiffy instant queues; better they get it and have a better healing set, thus putting more healers into the 'pool' then have to wait twenty minutes for another instance (vs my instant pops) then I get it because of some special snowflake roll etiquette.

TL;DR: If DPS want to roll on healing trinkets and such be my guest, being a healer doesn't entitle me to anything. It ain't mine til it hits the bag.
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