5.1 Patch notes

90 Troll Hunter
12505
Bestial Wrath no longer grants Hunter pets immunity to crowd control effects, and instead now breaks existing crowd control effects when activated.

You forgot Bladestorm (and I am sure a few others). Don't thank me, I know how easy it is to miss things.

Edit:
He is my reasons why this is not a good change.
1) BM Hunter without a pet is limited to Kill Shot, Arcane Shot, Cobra Shot, Serpent Sting, and (some) of the Talents as there primary damage dealing abilities. Our bread and butter ability (Kill Command) is not available if the Hunter is CC'ed (obviously), or if the Pet is CCed, or if the hunter is Disarmed. There are plenty of ways to limit BM Hunter damage significantly, and BW only breaks Hunter CC, there is no immunity.

2) BM Hunter's pet without the hunter is limited to Basic Attacks. That is it. Tenacity has a damaging move (Thunderstomp) that is an AOE move with inflated threat (read, less damage). Pet Family abilities are not damaging moves, except Worm/Chimera AOE, which can't be auto-cast. When a hunter pops BW, you can already drastically reduce the BW damage by CC'ing the hunter. You don't need a complete second set of diminishing returns (i.e. pet and hunter are counted separately) to CC the individual player.

3) You can't use the PVP trinket to break your pet out of CC

4) Glyphed Mend Pet (and not even the healing one) has a 50% chance pet tick to cleanse one debuff of each type. Rough estimates has ~33% of the time, you will lose over 50% of the BW duration before Glyphed Mend cleanses it. And that is if it cleanses the right debuff. And of course, if the pet is CCed again, 33% of the duration will expire before it ticks again.

5) Pet CC Immunity was not a problem, and if it was, then it should be just as big as a problem in other places. Pallies have their CC immunity when they pop a bubble (which lets them heal without hindrance, which is just as impactful as damaging without hindrance). Bladestorm has CC immunity (as alluded to above).

So, if you are going to go with this approach, then you should make a few additional changes to balance (empahasis) this out.

1) CCs on the pet count towards the hunter's diminishing returns, and vice-versa (same for any pet class to be honest, but the biggest issue pet focusing specs).
2) PVP trinkets (and similar effects) work on combat pets (not guardians, like Stampede, perma pets) as well as the hunter

Even then, this is not the way to nerf BM burst. You had the better idea making Rabid a Haste effect, instead of an AP one, and maybe adding a CD lockout between Stampede and BW (i.e. can't Stampede with BW active, can't BW with Stampede active).
Edited by Zulgaro on 10/18/2012 11:27 AM PDT
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90 Undead Rogue
5450
  • Mage Armor now reduces the duration of harmful Magic effects by 25% (was 35%).
  • The damage absorbed by Ice Barrier has been reduced by 25%.
  • The mana cost of Spellsteal has been increased to 21% of base mana (was 7%).
  • Yay!
    Edited by Midievil on 10/18/2012 10:35 AM PDT
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    90 Troll Hunter
    12505
    10/18/2012 10:34 AMPosted by Faust
    People take bladestorm?

    It will be more frequent than PVP BM with this change.

    10/18/2012 10:38 AMPosted by Serieux
    Hunter is mad he can't blanket immune his pet and global people with retard burst

    Hunter is mad at a stupid change that isn't fixing the problem. If you don't CC me, this change alone wouldn't prevent the "globaling with retarded burst". This change doesn't fix that problem at all.
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    85 Human Hunter
    3715
    The strategy for countering Bestial Wrath in arena now:

    1. /Laugh at the hunter for actually doing arena as BM.
    2. CC the pet and hunter.
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    90 Night Elf Monk
    14435
    10/18/2012 10:35 AMPosted by Midievil
  • Mage Armor now reduces the duration of harmful Magic effects by 25% (was 35%).
  • The damage absorbed by Ice Barrier has been reduced by 25%.
  • The mana cost of Spellsteal has been increased to 21% of base mana (was 7%).
  • Yay!


    You forgot

    Pyroblast now has a 3 second cooldown.
    Ring of Frost and Deep Freeze now have a 45 second cooldown (was 30 seconds).

    I say all those changes pretty much fixes up mages on paper. Maybe...

    Now for WW buffs. lol
    Edited by Lightvoid on 10/18/2012 12:44 PM PDT
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    100 Draenei Shaman
    5440
    Monk changes would be very welcome. My main concerns with the class, in no particular order:

    1) WW spec is very quickly GCD locked due to mastery; will be GCD-locked in T14H gear (this tier)
    2) FoF rooting the player
    3) WW lack of raid utility
    4) WW lack of cleave
    5) Useless abilities (touch of death in PvE, crackling jade lightning, healing sphere, path of blossoms, spinning fire blossom in PvE)
    6) Paralysis not a usable CC in PvE due to limited range
    7) Spear-hand strike the most expensive melee interrupt in the game by 2x
    8) L30 talents major issues; only Chi Wave useful solo, rest only useful for Mistweavers
    9) Noncompetitive talents: Ascension, Chi Torpedo, and (in most cases) Rushing Jade Wind
    10) Very tight BrM resource constraints not allowing them to use Breath of Fire, which has an awesome animation and is fun to use

    I think that basically covers my list.
    Edited by Slant on 10/18/2012 12:55 PM PDT
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    80 Human Priest
    3225
    Monk changes would be very welcome. My main concerns with the class, in no particular order:

    1) WW spec is very quickly GCD locked due to mastery; will be GCD-locked in T14H gear (this tier)
    2) FoF rooting the player
    3) WW lack of raid utility
    4) WW lack of cleave
    5) Useless abilities (touch of death in PvE, crackling jade lightning, healing sphere, path of blossoms, spinning fire blossom in PvE)
    6) Paralysis not a usable CC in PvE due to limited range
    7) Spear-hand strike the most expensive melee interrupt in the game by 2x
    8) L30 talents major issues; only Chi Wave useful solo, rest only useful for Mistweavers
    9) Noncompetitive talents: Ascension, Chi Torpedo, and (in most cases) Rushing Jade Wind
    10) Very tight BrM resource constraints not allowing them to use Breath of Fire, which has an awesome animation and is fun to use

    I think that basically covers my list.


    And if you are a pvp Windwalker the list grows by a multiple of three. It's that bad.

    I am seriously not happy that there are no monk changes in these notes.
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    100 Draenei Shaman
    5440
    Yes, my list was from a PvE perspective. Please feel free to chime in with PvP issues.

    These aren't the final notes. I'm sure we'll see a ton of changes for monks, they're a new class.
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    90 Night Elf Monk
    14435
    Yes, my list was from a PvE perspective. Please feel free to chime in with PvP issues.

    These aren't the final notes. I'm sure we'll see a ton of changes for monks, they're a new class.


    You don't wanna know what the list would look like for PvP...

    Basically take everything you said, and add...

    11) WW has a hard time reaching their target due to roll/FSK being so easy to juke.
    12) WW has a hard time sticking to a target because they have no root/snare break that doesn't cost them chi/move them away from the opponent.
    13) WW has some abilities that feel like they have a 3 yard range (Disable, Leg Sweep)
    14) Disable only refreshes its snare when the original debuff runs out instead of refreshing every second.
    15) No burst
    16) Less damage than a Rogue
    17) Touch of Death is useless for an execute due to its cost.
    18) WW is too easily peeled off with roots/snares/any CC
    19) Hard time sticking to a target due to no passive movement increase like Death Knights and Paladins.
    20) Poor cooldown mechanics with brews
    21) Spinning Fire Blossom being semi difficult to use in PvP due to latency/the attack hitting a target you don't intend on hitting.
    22) Tiger's Palm debuff difficult to maintain in PvP due to constant peels
    23) Poor heals
    24) Squishy when not using Touch of Karma
    25) Did I mention too easily CC'ed?
    26) Fists of Fury needing a prereq CC to hit before it can be used to hit reliably.
    27) Very small toolbox in comparison with other classes.
    28) Can't pressure opponents very well.
    29) (Supposedly) Cauterize and Cheat Death negate Touch of Death.

    and the list just goes on and on.
    Edited by Lightvoid on 10/18/2012 1:43 PM PDT
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    100 Draenei Shaman
    5440
    Monks and the WW spec in particular really does need a lot of work. The expansion is out and they clearly aren't overpowered. Monks aren't a DK repeat. Now it's time to carefully fix those issues.
    Edited by Slant on 10/18/2012 1:53 PM PDT
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    80 Human Priest
    3225
    Yeah the disable snare not refreshing until it runs out is a problem because rarely are you on a target for 8secs before you are peeled off as a WW monk.

    Also FSK snare needs to last longer, and you need to be able to go right into a disable (root) with that snare up.

    Right now if you FSK and successfully land on the target and they get the FSK snare...you still have to disable two times to root them.

    Also monks really need a passive 10-15% damage reduction, or their healing ability needs to be greatly improved.

    The healing needs to be improved anyway. Why don't they have a atk power to spell power conversion, and why don't they have any +healing percentage modifiers like enhancement shaman and ret paladins?

    Monks also need a way to get rid of roots. I would suggest adding root removal to expel harm as a WW only spec bonus.
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    1 Blood Elf Rogue
    0
    10/18/2012 10:32 AMPosted by Zulgaro
    Bestial Wrath no longer grants Hunter pets immunity to crowd control effects, and instead now breaks existing crowd control effects when activated.

    You forgot Bladestorm


    I can confirm that Bladestorm does not give the warrior's pets immunity to crowd control.

    So no, they didn't forget anything.
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    90 Troll Hunter
    12505
    Did you seriously just compare bestial wrath to bladestorm!??!?!

    The strategy for countering Bestial Wrath in arena now:

    1. /Laugh at the hunter for actually doing arena as BM.
    2. CC the pet and hunter.


    Can you stop posting in every single thread whining about hunters? The hunter pet being successible to CC is not the end of the world. They could have and should have gutted your damage but they didn't.

    You were always making dumb posts about nerfing bm now you're here saying the exact opposite. You don't even play a hunter at 90, why do you even care what happens to hunters in arena rofl


    Yes, their DPS cooldown can't be CC'ed, and not only can a Hunters DPS cooldown can be CCed, there is 2 sets of diminishing returns to abuse, instead of just one, as CCing either the hunter or the pet already significantly cripples the effectiveness of the ability.

    And there is a big difference between "nerfing", and "breaking". This change isn't a nerfbat swing, its a sledge hammer, to the kneecaps.
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    90 Blood Elf Paladin
    11915
    10/18/2012 02:05 PMPosted by Primiez
    Monks also need a way to get rid of roots. I would suggest adding root removal to expel harm as a WW only spec bonus.

    What happened to that hilarious set bonus of theirs?

    Edit: oh, it was changed to only snares, good.
    Edited by Elidra on 10/18/2012 3:55 PM PDT
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    100 Orc Warrior
    9870
    You want to nerf an ability no warrior specs because it does so little damage?

    By all means, nerf Bladestorm if you want if it makes you feel better about your nerfs.
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